M1 Questions

[DZelenka]

I was playing with an Savage M1 today and had some questions and was looking for some feedback. I know I as a lot but I have a lot to learn. As a description, it is parkerized as dark grey with moderately heavy sandblasting on the starboard side. the parts are marked as follows: Buffer and Rocker - AOC; Trip, Trigger, Disconnector, Sear, bolt handle and fore end hanger - Stevens; buttstock is marked with a W or M; and everything else is marked Savage, including the wood. The lower is serialed to the upper with a SS stamp between the grip and the butt. It is serial numbered in the 48,000 range. There is no US Property stamp. The barrel does not have a P but it does have a punch and some other markings including an S. I have other pictures.

 

Dan

[DZelenka]

I just re-read my post and realized I hadn't asked any questions. 1) replacement barrel?; 2) usgi or aftermarket parkerizing (most parts, even the replacements are parkerized)?; 3) what make is the buttstock?; 4) anything jump out at you as out of the ordinary? Any other comments or feedback?

 

Dan

Edited July 3, 2015 by DZelenka

[The1930sRust]

Looks very similar to my Savage M1, save mine was a much higher serial number, with protected sight. Mine was similarly light in terms of the proof marks, which had been ground down, probably due to pitting. Yours above even looks ground upon like the nose of my Savage, now "restored". CG

 

http://www.pbase.com/darklightimagery/savage_m1

[reconbob]

I think the Parkerizing is not WW2 vintage. It is too light in color. I have never seen a trigger frame with 2 "S"

stamped side by side like that, although I am sure the trigger frame is original. The barrel should have a P somewhere

at the back end. It may be off to one side of the other. The barrel should also have a square or round S. if it does

not have these markings it is not an original barrel.

 

Bob

[DZelenka]

I think the Parkerizing is not WW2 vintage. It is too light in color. I have never seen a trigger frame with 2 "S"

stamped side by side like that, although I am sure the trigger frame is original. The barrel should have a P somewhere

at the back end. It may be off to one side of the other. The barrel should also have a square or round S. if it does

not have these markings it is not an original barrel.

 

Bob

These are the markings on the barrel. The S is certainly there. That R may be a P with a punch but I'm not in possession of the gun so I can't check. I don't recall if it had anything on the other side.

[DZelenka]

My understanding is that the square S is a Stevens produced part and that they were replacement parts only. It's funny that some of the exact same square S parts are in my 774,000 sn Savage M1A1, including the fore end hanger. I can understand some of the internals being wear items, but why do these guns have Stevens hangers?

 

Any idea on the W marked buttstock?

 

Dan

[bug]

Wild Fowler Decoy of Saybrook, Conn.

[Motorcar]

Re-parked. Vendor parts made it in all kinds of different war guns, a non issue unless you are are vetting a '21 Colt.

[TD.]

DZelenka,

The J. Stevens Arms Company was a subcontractor for Savage Arms Company. Together, these two companies manufactured just about every part for the Thompson gun. (American Thunder II, page 129). Stevens marked parts were used both for production and spares. You will definatly want to obtain a copy of Frank's new book, American Thunder III, scheduled to be released later this year. It will most likely answer all your questions.

[jim c 351]

TD,

I believe that Savage bought Stevens around 1920 and has owned Stevens to this day.

After the war Savage moved from NY to the Stevens plant in Chicopee falls.

So while some Thompson parts are stamped with a round "S" and other parts are stamped with a Square "S", depending on the factory, the parts were made by the same corp.

Jim C

[TD.]

Jim,

Your probably right on this point. Frank describes Savage and Stevens as sister companies. I was thinking they were operated as separate entities for many years irrespective of who controlled both.

[DZelenka]

So, the question is whether Savage used Stevens parts in the manufacture of the guns or did Stevens only supply replacement parts? If Stevens was a true subcontractor supplying parts to be used in the manufacture of new guns, that would explain why the fore end hanger, trigger, and disconnector are Stevens in both my savage M1A1 and this Savage M1.

 

Also, is American Thunder III a stand alone work or would I need I and II also.

 

Thanks

 

Dan

[mgvince]

Savage did use Stevens parts in production. My 1941 1928 Savage has a mix of Savage and Stevens parts. And is completely original.

[TD.]

There is no question. Savage and Stevens manufactured parts were used in manufacture of the M1 Thompson - probably by both manufacturers.

 

From what I have seen, American Thunder III will be a stand alone book. I would not sell American Thunder I or II if it is on your bookshelf but there is no need to purchase either one on the secondary market when American Thunder III is released later this year.

[DZelenka]

Is there any way to pre-order AT III? Release date?

[j.hayes1942]

If I read your S/N correctly, I think yours is within 30 of mine. Kind of interesting that they may have left the factory on the same day. jh

[mnshooter]

At the TATA annual meeting, Frank Iannamico announced that American Thunder III would be available this fall.

He also said that due to the large amount of new content, the chapter of AT II showing the differences between the various models of Thompsons would not be included in the Third edition.

That information can be found elsewhere, but might be a factor in your continuing search for the earlier editions.

 

 

I own AT II, and brought it to the show for Frank to sign.

In addition to having that copy autographed by Frank, I was able to order a future autographed copy of AT III.

 

This is one of the many benefits in attending the TATA annual event!

 

Next year will be the 25th Anniversary TATA meeting. Don't miss it!

Edited July 29, 2015 by mnshooter

[buzz]

Sometimes the staining or patina that forms on parkerized parts is almost like a varnish

 

if you take acetone or solvent like that and clean the old parkerized parts, sometimes it will take the patina off the part and you end up with a new looking part

 

but that gun looks too smooth and uniform in color, if it was a 1940s arsenal park job I would expect some variation in color