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Nice NAC 28A1


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Attached are some jpegs of a nice 1928A1 NAC Thompson that just came in. Note that it has a blued finish and not Dulite. Wood is really nice and the foregrip is marked "Sile" just in front of the bottom side of the channel. Nickel bolt is Savage marked. Curious as to what you guys think about this weapon and what it might retail for.

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Nice piece! It's a very nice job of rebluing, but refinished it is. Someone knew their business as the gun has not been over buffed. In today's market, I wouldn't dare hazard a guess as to potential pricing. It will probably bring what is asked.

 

Interesting that on my own NAC M1928A1 there are no periods in NAC. It's a matching gun with almost of its original finish from the 339 thousand seral range.

Edited by TSMGguy
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Nick you know what this stuff sells for you have been doing it for ages. price it sell it. lets not let Thompsons be the drama club.ha ha wait it already is. yeah i had to bust somebodies balls for 2022. nice gun may it find a new home soon to a deserving buyer.

 

since it is leaving all the other tommies behind. and everybody around here have a good 2022 you made it this far.RON K.

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There is still confusion about whether George Numrich even had an NFA firearms importer license. See this thread:

 

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24812&hl=interarmco

 

As far as periods after the Numrich Arms Corporation letters, here is a what Frank Iannamico describes as a:

"Model of 1928 Numrich Arms "crate" Thompson serial number S-38 N.A.C. assembled with a World War II Savage receiver."

Do the periods have any significance regarding whether the firearm was assembled by Numrich, an actual Savage/AO production firearm that was imported to the USA, but not necessarily by Numrich himself, or any combination.

A.O. 134336 N.A.C. with matching frame being a production example was obtained by Numrcih, but did he import it?

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brveagle,

Excellent question! +1 for you.

 

Arthur,

S - 38 N.A.C. is one of the crate receivers obtained in the sale of Thompson assets by George Numrich that was later manufactured into a Thompson submachine gun by Numrich Arms employees (and was deactivated and sold).

 

A.O. 134336 N.A.C. appears to be a Thompson submachine gun manufactured at the Auto-Ordnance Bridgeport (AOB) factory and accepted by the U.S. Government. Where it traveled after it left the factory is anyone's guess. That said, at some point in time it was legally added to the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR).

 

Your question: Did George Numrich/Numrich Arms Corporation import A.O. 134336 back into the USA?

 

Answer: I don't know...but it really doesn't matter. The results of a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request would probably answer that question. At a minimum, it would provide additional information to help better understand the past history.

 

I do know after writing the story of Potomac Arms in, A Thompson Compendium, that George Numrich, John Richards, Val Forgett, and Sam Cummings all knew each other and were friends. They also did business together. A review of the serial numbers of AOB Thompson guns beginning with serial number A.O. 134___ revealed Potomac Arms acquired five (5) Thompson guns from INTERARMS in this serial number range. Could A.O. 134336 be a sixth Thompson gun in this serial number range imported by INTERARMS and sold to Numrich Arms Corporation (instead of Potomac Arms)? Very possible; a FOIA would certainly add documentation to this observation.

 

But also based on the chapter on NAC Thompson guns in, A Thompson Compendium, I am going to take my observations a step further. brveagle asked about the index line on the barrel collar. Again, excellent question. The next step is to count the barrel fins. Doing this will reveal only 26 fins and a grip mount located underneath the 20th fin. This is a Numrich Arms barrel! It is easy to surmise that A.O. 134336 had a bad barrel and was sold to Numrich Arms Corporation by INTERARMS (probably at a discounted price). Numrich Arms employees simply replaced the bad GI barrel with one of theirs, applied the NAC serial number suffix as was their custom during that time frame and entered that registration information in the NFRTR.

 

I readily admit some of my above observations are not directly supported by documentation. However, all my observations are based on known documentation. And a FOIA request on A.O. 134336 N.A.C. would probably go a long way to answering a lot questions. As for now, I would view A.O. 134336 N.A.C. as a nice looking shooter grade (because of the re-blue, non-original barrel and NAC markings) Thompson submachine gun probably valued at the high end of the 1928AC variation price range.

 

Nick,

Thank you for sharing information with the forum on this AOB Thompson gun. Someone is going to end up with a nice Thompson gun!

 

All good stuff!!!

 

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But also based on the chapter on NAC Thompson guns in, A Thompson Compendium, I am going to take my observations a step further. brveagle asked about the index line on the barrel collar. Again, excellent question. The next step is to count the barrel fins. Doing this will reveal only 26 fins and a grip mount located underneath the 20th fin. This is a Numrich Arms barrel! It is easy to surmise that A.O. 134336 had a bad barrel and was sold to Numrich Arms Corporation by INTERARMS (probably at a discounted price). Numrich Arms employees simply replaced the bad GI barrel with one of theirs, applied the NAC serial number suffix as was their custom during that time frame and entered that registration information in the NFRTR.

 

An example of a barrel sans witness mark was reported by you back in 2012 on a Savage TSMG in the 16,000 serial number range. Is it definitive that George Numrich milled his own finned barrels, but stopped at 26 fins? Or used WWII surplus smooth barrels and machined the fins? Why? Surely he had Maguire's surplus WWII 1928 TSMG finned barrels packaged in cosmoline. He then installed the fourth type WWII Cutts Compensator that came with the original AO barrel? This would mean that A.O. 134336 is partially...a parts gun.

 

Here is a 2012 thread about 26 finned aftermarket barrels of unknown manufacture, but with very thick collar fin. At the time, I figured these were originally Numrich smooth barrels that had fins machined.

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14030&hl=%2Bthompson+%2Bbarrel+%2Bwith+%2Bfins

 

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Arthur,

I would not expect an original 16,000 Savage Thompson submachine gun to have an index line or witness mark on the barrel collar. This subject and the 26 fin barrels from Numrich Arms (and (teaser) used by J. Curtis Earl) are fully explained in, A Thompson Compendium. Signed copies of my latest book are available directly from me for $40 plus $4 shipping. Send me a PM for ordering instructions. Also immediately available on Amazon.com.

 

I do not consider A.O. 134336 N.A.C. a parts gun or even "partially" a parts gun. The matching frame and receiver and serial number (sans the NAC suffix) in the known AOB series of guns along with all GI parts except for the barrel indicate to me this was at one time an original World War II Thompson submachine gun. The two ordnance inspector markings also indicate it was most likely accepted by the US government in 1941/42. That said, the consumer gets to make the ultimate call. Again, the chapter on NAC Thompson guns in A Thompson Compendium explains the difference between the Numrich crate guns and original WW II guns.

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This gun is described as having a blued finish as opposed to a Dulite finish. Dulite is a leading manufacturer of chemicals to do black oxide. It is a brand name of chemicals, not a finish. Dulite chemicals are used to put a black oxide finish on steel. Black oxide is the blue finish found on gun parts. Everywhere in industry the finish is called black oxide EXCEPT in the firearms industry where it is referred to as bluing.

 

If someone refers to a gun having a Dulite finish the correct assumption would be that it has a black oxide/blued finish applied using chemicals provided by the Dulite Manufacturing Company, not that it has a finish that is not a blued finish.

 

Bob

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This subject and the 26 fin barrels from Numrich Arms (and (teaser) used by J. Curtis Earl) are fully explained in, A Thompson Compendium. guns along with all GI parts except for the barrel indicate to me this was at one time an original World War II Thompson submachine gun.

 

No doubt A.O. 134336 N.A.C is what it appears to be ...except the non WWII barrel, whenever it was installed or by whom, surely impacts the TSMGs designation as all G.I., if not partially a parts gun. There is nothing to suggest that the barrel replacement occurred at the moment Numrich obtained the TSMG from some importer other than the N.A.C. suffix.

 

JCE purchased Numrich produced 26 fin barrels to use on TSMGs he sold? Your explanation for why Numrich bothered to make unmarked 26 fin barrels when an abundance of surplus G.I. barrels were available to him in the 1950's can not be revealed here unless some board member currently in possession of your book chimes in? Ok.

 

Bannon and Hill "Notes On Auto Ordnance" has a picture of a 26 fin barrel that is described as an "Early 1928A1 Barrel." There is no mention of the barrel having or not having the witness mark or any marks. Confusion abounds.

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I don't know how Numrich Arms manufactured the 26 fin barrels. I would assume from scratch since they made barrels for other guns. However, it really doesn't matter if they used original GI smooth barrels as a basis for these barrels. 26 fin barrels where the grip mount rests under the 20th fin are a Numrich Arms product. And not original to any 1921/1928 Thompson gun.

 

I don't have my Bannon and Hill Notes on Auto-Ordnance, Second Edition with me. If you provide a page number, I will take a look when I get home. Or better yet, post a scan of the page. Of course, finding mistakes in that old publication would not surprise me.

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