Purple Savage WW2 actuator

[reconbob]

I have seen quite a few of these in the Russian kits. Savage (Stevens) M1928A1 actuator

with a horrible purple finish. You would think this is a West Hurley casting, but its WW2. This

is the only Thompson part I can think of with this remarkably different finish. I have never

seen this on any other part. Now, the cause of this is that the part was blued at the wrong

temperature, or for too short a time, or both. Obviously they let them through this way. But

why not buttplates? swivels?, grip mounts? barrels? etc.

There is nothing wrong with these (although this one is particularly rough in the lightening

cuts) because when you re-dip them they come out a nice blue-black. Another little example of

something that is not supposed to be....but is....

 

Bob

 

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/reconbob/IMG_4656_zpsc99da0f2.jpg

 

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/reconbob/IMG_4657_zpse6781502.jpg

 

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/reconbob/IMG_4659_zps82169ab4.jpg

[TD.]

Bob, nice pictures. Thank you for sharing.

 

I have also seen a number of GI actuators this color. My guess is this actuator was refinished in the last few years by someone in the chain that was selling the parts kits. I agree about the bluing problem. Given the number of actuators being manufactured and blued during the war, I feel certain the technicians at Stevens would not have let this outside the factory. This is a rookie mistake.

[jim c 351]

Bob,

Its been 25 years since I did any bluing but if I remember correctly the bluing salt temperature must be maintained between 280 to 290 degrees. If the temp exceeds 290 degrees the product takes on a reddish color.

Of course the alloy of the steel could make a difference and cast iron always tends to take on a reddish color.

If they were destined to go to a commie country I can't see where RED would have been a problem.

Jim C

PS considering that there was a war to be won, I don't think they would have been rejected no matter what country was going to receive them.

Edited April 7, 2014 by jim c 351

[TSMGguy]

The entire original finish on the receiver on my M1928A1 is purple.

[ron_brock]

I have to disagree with TD a little on this one about the workers at Savage. During war time as long as fit, form or function were not impacted (meaning the part meets all print requirements), I do not believe that cosmetic appearance issues with the bluing such as the photographed example would cause the lot to be scrapped. This is of course my opinion.

 

I had one of these as well, but mine had some surface rust. It's now very light and refinished thanks to PK's 21 conversion, so there is one less of these in the market place.

 

- Ron

[PK.]

Steel alloy and hardness make the difference here. Actuators and some WWII receivers will routinely render reddish if blued at the chemical concentration required to get a good color for the remainder of the parts, the effect can be instantaneous or may develop over time. In wartime production they would not have run two different processes because it just didn’t matter if the actuators were reddish.

[TD.]

I do not disagree with the premise a necessary and important part would not be rejected outright during war time production for a color problem. I just don't believe it was that difficult for Stevens to get the process right the first time. And nearly every time.

 

More importantly, I believe there is much more to learn about these "Russian part kits" we were so grateful for several years ago. The painted finish, the ground off serial numbers, the renumbering of the frames (sometimes twice), the reproduction L type rear sights, the knurled actuator upgrades by some vendors and so on. The marketing mantra about how new in the crate WWII Thompson guns were demilled seemed a stretch - especially after examining some of these kits. I believe many of these Thompson guns were well used before the demil process. The re-blue of of premium part (knurled actuator) would fit perfectly within the guidelines of everything noted above.

[Paladin601]

I remember reading an incident that happened at the Packard Plant in World War 2. They were making 12 cylinder Merlin engines at the time for the P51. They had an embrittlement problem with some of the parts, don't remember which parts they were, but they were no passing inspection and so of the engine were failing prematurely. They thought is was Sabotage and the FBI was called in to investigate.

 

Well it turned out that the Vat for quenching after heat treating of metal had been contaminated by the left over soda pop emptied by workers on their breaks . They emptied the bottles because the sugar attracted the ants. There solution was to move the break area.

 

During War time, companies trying to extend the life of Chemicals, worker not realizing that habit can damage a vat of chemical can have lots of side effects. Maybe this is one.

[m3bobby]

I was told it was a more recent commercial blue which isn't as effective as the traditional methods due to health and safety and modern regs.

[emmagee1917]

WW2 Stevens / Savage trenchgun handguards and adapters . Were they finished separately or as an assembly ? Purple adapters and blued handguards are normal for these. If they were dipped together , then metal composition would be the suspect. If done apart at different shop lines or subcontractor's factories , then it could be temp / mixture and / or composition or even some of each.

Chris

[gijive]

More importantly, I believe there is much more to learn about these "Russian part kits" we were so grateful for several years ago. The painted finish, the ground off serial numbers, the renumbering of the frames (sometimes twice), the reproduction L type rear sights, the knurled actuator upgrades by some vendors and so on. The marketing mantra about how new in the crate WWII Thompson guns were demilled seemed a stretch - especially after examining some of these kits. I believe many of these Thompson guns were well used before the demil process. The re-blue of of premium part (knurled actuator) would fit perfectly within the guidelines of everything noted above.

 

Amen. I would also add that the idea of the 1928 style buttstocks being disassembled by the Russians and then put back together in randon fashion, causing mismatched assembly numbers on the butt plates and butt stocks, is also quite a stretch to justify the position that all these guns sent to Russia (we really don't even know when) were all "brand new off the assembly line".

[ron_brock]

I double checked, my actuator is a smooth one. It could be a material issue slight variation in hardness or composition as even with PKs new finish, it has a slightly redder hue than my Richardson.

PK do you perform and stress relieving or heat treating before or after machining?

 

Ron

[TSMGguy]

WW2 Stevens / Savage trenchgun handguards and adapters . Were they finished separately or as an assembly ? Purple adapters and blued handguards are normal for these. If they were dipped together , then metal composition would be the suspect. If done apart at different shop lines or subcontractor's factories , then it could be temp / mixture and / or composition or even some of each.

Chris

 

Dipped together, I suspect, Chris, because the rivets exhibit the same level of blue and polish as the hand guard. At least they do on my original Savage 520 and 620 trench guns.

Edited April 10, 2014 by TSMGguy