Kilroy Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Anyone know what the different qualifications for marksman, expert, sharp shooter etc were during WWII? For Submachine gun? Carbine? Auto rifle? Machine gun? Bayonet? Gernade? I asked this question on another message board and got an answer for the rifle qualifications but can't find anything for any of these other ones. I kind of want to know because I'd be curious to see how I could qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reconbob Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 For the BAR the firing for qualification was 2 courses - Known distance slow fire, and known distance automatic fireat targets.You actually fired the slow fire single shot! (if you don't know the BAR it fires from an open bolt.) The highest possiblescore was 250 (20 slow, 30 automatic, 50 shots total) Expert 215 or better, Sharpshooter 190 or better, Marksman 150or better. BUT, there are two more courses of automatic fire totaling 160 rounds at silhouettes. You have to score atleast 130 (out of a possible 239 points) on this part for your previous qualifying score to stand. Simple, eh? This is courtesy of FM 23-15 for the M1918A2 BAR May 1961. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Mills Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 You may find the "Thompson qualifying" answer in that 5-in-1 Thompson training/info manual that Combat Bookshelf put out years ago and I'm pretty sure it's been reprinted. I remember the retiring police chief in a town I was living in; I asked him if anybody but him could qualify on a Thompson these days (this was 1990). He grinned and said "Nope, I'm the only one, and I did it a long time ago in the Army!" I love hearing those stories. My uncle carried a Thompson in the Pacific as a sarge, and swears he saw some crates of 25 round Tommy mags there, but couldn't get at 'em. Now there's a "can of worms" subject. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph12297 Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Someone, I can't recall who it was, posted here a year or two ago a US Training video for the TSMG, I can't find it, but that was very in depth. Maybe that gentlemen can repost..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 I'm pretty sure the qualifying info is in FM 23-40. I'll check when I can today. I also have a few WWII Thompson range score sheets that might be interesting to add to this conversation. David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted April 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Someone, I can't recall who it was, posted here a year or two ago a US Training video for the TSMG, I can't find it, but that was very in depth. Maybe that gentlemen can repost.....This is from pretty early in the war going by the WWI helmets they are wearing. I've watched this video a couple times it's fun to watch. However, it does not tell us to to score for expert, sharpshooter and marksman. Ok, this is weird. Every time I try to copy and paste the link when I submit it the link isn't there?Go to google and search for 'Marksmanship with the Thompson submachine gun' and it comes right up. 24 minute video. Edited April 19, 2014 by Kilroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted April 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) I found a couple of them last night, still missing a couple of them though. I still haven't found the one for the Thompson. BAR: FM 23-15 Pg. 86M1903: FM 23-10 Pg. 116M1: FM 23-5 Pg. 253Pistols: FM 23-35 Pg. 132Carbine: FM 23-7 Pg. 70Bayonet: FM-23-25 Pg. 21 Edited April 19, 2014 by Kilroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 FM 23-40 dated 12/31/41 outlines the courses of fire, which include moving vehicle firing. The score sheet mentions Expert, 1st Class Gunner, and 2nd Class Gunner levels, but does not detail the qualification scores necessary for each level. Perhaps those are detailed elsewhere... David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 One of my WWII Thompson scorecards had the answer. Qualifications: Expert: 80Marksman 1st Class: 70Marksman 2nd Class: 60 A Phase: 10 rounds, single shot (5 targets)B Phase: 15 rounds, automatic fire (5 targets) - Six of these rounds must be fired from kneeling or sitting positionC Phase: 10 rounds, slow fire, 200 yards I'm confused as to exactly how each item was scored, but I'm looking for more information. David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted April 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) Thanks, any idea on what distances were for the A and B phase? I'd like to one day try and see now I can qualify. This is a wild ass guess, but I wonder if this 'Target D' is the target used? http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd269/dwl018/Targettypes_zpsfe0b5882.jpg As I understand, a hit in the black would be a 5, next ring a 4, next ring a 3. Edited April 22, 2014 by Kilroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Dudley Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 1939 Camp Perry match program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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