docmolar Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 (edited) I have the paper work in for my first Thompson and I thought I would get a head start by getting some ammo loaded up. I do a lot of reloading , but not much .45acp. So I thought I would ask whats your favorite load, lead vs. jacketed, and how hot of a load do you need to have ? Thanks Also where is a good place to get bullets ??? Edited January 30, 2006 by docmolar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK. Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 230 RN TMJ (plated), 5.0.-5.2 WW231 The plated bullet will not foul the Cutts so readily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimFromFL Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Clays 3.7gr powder and 230 gr Rainier Bullets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 PK, Have you found the plated bullets as good (for not leading) as the FMJs?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK. Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Better, they don't have an exposed lead base to vaporize and clog your Cutts like FMJ's do. They will not lead the bore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Buy ready made, its cheaper and eaiser and works. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrys Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Berrys 230gr FMJ, 5.0gr Bullseye, 1.270 OAL This load runs fine in 3 thompsons, M10, and UZI 45 conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Brother Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Lyman Semi-wadcutter 200 grain cast lead, over 6.3 grains of Unique and a Winchester large pistol primer, run 100% reliably out of my Thompson, and if you do your part right, will go into the same ragged hole if you shoot paper, and bust every bottle and send every can flying within range with a "One shot, one kill!" style of plinkin" You can go a little higher with the charge, but don't exceed 7.3 grains. The Lyman 220 grain cast lead bullet also shoots good with the same load. Advantages to cast lead bullets? 1. As many as you want for practically free. 2. Lead bullets do not have the same amount of friction on your barrel that full metal jackets have, and as a direct result of this the velocity is higher. 3. It is impossible to wear a Thompson barrel out using lead bullets. 4. Lead expands much better than full metal jackets when they hit, therefore causing a better energy release into the target. (Especially if you have a lathe to hollow point them.) 5. Did I mention that once you have the mould, you have a lifetime supply of bullets at a price so close to free that you might as well say "Free bullets!!?? Why the hell have I been spending so much money on bullets that are not as efficient as home cast? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/tongue.gif " Of course, from what I understand, full-auto Thompsons will start to smoke rather heavily due to the burning bullet lube, and that may be where this "leading" idea came from. But for the 1927 model, I've shot nothing but home cast lead bullets out of it for years now with no leading in the barrel at all. The comp does build up some crud, but it aint that hard to chip it out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1919A6 Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Better get yourself a case gauge and gauge every reload. My Colt was having 30% failure to fire rate until I found that out. The rejects for the Thompson go through the home fit M3A1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 QUOTE (1919A6 @ Jan 31 2006, 10:01 PM) Better get yourself a case gauge and gauge every reload. My Colt was having 30% failure to fire rate until I found that out. The rejects for the Thompson go through the home fit M3A1. Another good reason to avoid the "reload" path. I guess if you have no other hobbies... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif While reloading has its place, its sure ain't got one with a Thompson. If you want to save money, get a 22 conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFalGuy Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 PK, Can you tell us any brand of manufactured 45 ammo that is TMJ instead of FMJ. My comp is clean now and I want it to stay that way. I noticed no one has found a way to clean a comp as of the last thread 4-5 months ago- Anything new in that arena? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimFromFL Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 QUOTE (John Jr @ Feb 1 2006, 12:58 AM) QUOTE (1919A6 @ Jan 31 2006, 10:01 PM) Better get yourself a case gauge and gauge every reload. My Colt was having 30% failure to fire rate until I found that out. The rejects for the Thompson go through the home fit M3A1. Another good reason to avoid the "reload" path. I guess if you have no other hobbies... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif While reloading has its place, its sure ain't got one with a Thompson. If you want to save money, get a 22 conversion. I get about 2 rounds out of 1000 that fail in the gauge. $100/1000 along with loads that are just perfect for my Thompson is more than enough reason. Now if your Thompson is a safe queen then it is probably not worth it. When you calculate 10,000 rounds a year that is about $1000 savings. Now if you reload for rifles and target shooting, this opens up a new can of worms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Brother Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 QUOTE (John Jr @ Feb 1 2006, 12:58 AM) QUOTE (1919A6 @ Jan 31 2006, 10:01 PM) Better get yourself a case gauge and gauge every reload. My Colt was having 30% failure to fire rate until I found that out. The rejects for the Thompson go through the home fit M3A1. Another good reason to avoid the "reload" path. I guess if you have no other hobbies... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif While reloading has its place, its sure ain't got one with a Thompson. If you want to save money, get a 22 conversion. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif To be honest, owning firearms and NOT reloading is an idea I find extremely odd. My reloads get 100% reliability out of not only my Thompson, but every firearm I own. (With the exception of the caliber I don't reload, The .22 Long Rifle. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/tongue.gif ) A box of 50 .45 ACP cartridges costs me about a buck, but that is not the main reason I reload. When you handload your own cartridges, you open up a world of possibilities that frankly, just is not available with factory ammo. Being able to pick your bullet weight, style, ballistic coefficient, sectional density, type and charge of propellant, primer, seating depth, crimp, and all other factors relating to interior ballistics yourself, rather than rely on some mass produced cartridge that could have slipped by some half asleep guy at 3 o'clock in the morning is far more desireable to me. And the possibilities for experimenting are all part of the fun of owning firearms. Where else for example, would you go buy .44 Magnum loads made up of two cast lead round balls, or .30 '06 loads that are quiet and good enough to put a quail on your barbecue instead of blasting it to smithereens? Do you really prefer to spend about $17.99 for a box of 20 Federal Hydroshoks for .45 ACP, when you know that you can make a cast bullet do the exact same thing with the proper alloy and a few seconds in a lathe? Do you actually prefer to depend on store bought ammo, knowing that not only could that particular brand be discontinued at any time, but the National Socialists could make laws limiting not just the Firearms but the ammunition? I live in the great Socialist paradise of Kalifornia, and let me tell you, between the ridicules laws on buying just ammunition, (not to mention the sky-high taxes they impose on it...) let alone the firearms, I would rather rely on me for my ammunition. Shoot, ( http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/tongue.gif ) an 8 pound can of Bullseye and a few cartons of primers will cost you the same amount as about 15 boxes of factory ammo, but set you up to make cartridges numbering well into the thousands of rounds. Yes indeedy, anybody that owns firearms but does not reload, just does not know what he is missing out on. It's not like it is rocket science either, anybody that knows how to make a decent steak on open flame, or knows how to maintain and repair his own rifle can make better than factory ammo his first time out if he really put his mind to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK. Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Mark, There is lots of “green†ammo available now, most of that which is intended for indoor ranges is TMJ, although there are other acronyms (why can’t they standardize something as simple as that?) I use Federal FMJ for shop work because it’s the 80 year old standard, but reload the TMJ for myself. I clean packed Cutts by soaking them in white vinegar for a week or so, then scraping them out with an end mill. It works great, but will take the bluing right off too. No big deal if you are going to blue the gun anyway. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFalGuy Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Thanks PK, I will have to look at the comp (its a WH) and see how easy it is to take off when it gets bad if I can't find any of the green TMJ ammo. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dogsfightin Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 I use 6.4 gr of hodgdon HP38 behind a 230 gr FMJ..... It has run flawlessley in my M1A1.....FWIW ... I think the use of the Lee 45 acp factory profileing die in the fourth hole on my 550 dillon helps quite a bit.... It applies the final taper crimp and is supposed to resize the loaded round to factory spec. I am not a big fan od Lee reloading equipment but I do like this die alot. It has helped me alot in the chambering reliability on my 1911... I love to reload ..... It is kinda like "male knitting" it helps me unwind in the evenings. Just be sure to get powder in each and every case or you will end up with a ring inside your barrell..(Internal Fins)!! GOOD LUCK 2Dogs.......OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK. Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 I’d say you need to back off that a bit, Hodgdon lists 5.3 as max for that combo. My experience would confirm that. The Lee Factory Crimp Die is a must in my book if you are shooting in any auto-loading firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 smoker Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 5.0 grs. of Bullseye over 230gr Rn,or 230gr FMJ (plated) has been my standard load for many years. I used to use 6.5grs of Unique but find Bullseye goes farther..i.e loads more bullets for the buck...Unique leaves a lot of unburned flakes on me and my guns for some reason.As far as the lead in the comp..a little soak in the ultrasonic cleaner loosens most of the crud and doesn`t harm the finish.I do pay more attention to re-oiling any parts that are soaked in the Ultrasonic after the excellent post by TacAd,btw... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dogsfightin Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 Pk. I see what you were talking about on the Hodgdon site..... I am going to have to go home and see where I got my info. Im not a "super duper hot load nut" My intention was to duplicate GI ball ammo. Somewhere around 850 to 875 fps ...... I think I got it out of an old Midway Load Map manual just for 45 acp. I will look when I get home tonight. Thanks for the concern. It does work good,....Maybe TOO GOOD... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif 2Dogs....OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dogsfightin Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 PK. Looked it up last night..... Midway load map first edition second printing..... Page 82 this manual lists the max charge of HP-38 as 6.5 grains for a 230 grain fmj bullet. I am not attempting to argue with you. I just wanted show you where i found it.... I pulled a couple of bullets last night to make sure. Carefully weighed them....One charge weighed 6.3 and the other 6.2 grains.... I examined some brass that had been fired with this load and saw no signs of excessive pressure. I am probably going to continue to shoot what I have already got loaded...Then back the load down to what is printed in the hodgdon manual. If i get the time I may chronograph some of the loads to check the velocity....THANKS for the heads up. 2Dogs.....OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK. Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 It will be interesting to see your choreograph numbers. I like to review data from at least three independent sources befor I try a new load; there are some interesting extremes out there. The original 45 acp loading was for “5 grains of smokeless powder†(things have changed, haven’t they?). I have found that 5 gr. of 231 or Bullseye or the like will yield “factory†velocities & pressures with the 230 gr. bullet. FWIW, Hodgdon originally bought 231 from Olin and packaged it as HP38. I don’t think they are getting it from Olin currently, but I’d bet if you compare the Hodgdon data to the Olin data they will be virtually the same. On the side; the working pressure for this cartridge is only ~16ksi. The normal “pressure signs†we look for as reloaders don’t become evident until much higher levels are reached, at least twice that, which is about what a proof load will yield in this caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dogsfightin Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 I will try to crono a few rounds in the morning and post the results tomorrow night. It should be interesting......And you guys are right. I also usually consult more than one source when loading ammo. I think at the time it was the only manual that I had that had HP-38 listed... My favorite manual is an old lyman number four. Which is the first manual I ever owned. It is a little hotter than the new books..... THANKS for all the good info.... 2dogs........OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK. Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Keep in mind that higher pressure does not always mean higher velocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2dogsfightin Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Ok, I just got back from my range....And let me tell you it was DANG COLD out there.....24 deg F......I took along what factory ammo I had on hand. here are the results.. All ammo was 230 grain FMJ MFS --- S&B --- MY Reloads 834 --- 866 --- 949 835 --- 876 --- 951 886 --- 888 --- 973 884 --- 904 --- 973 889 --- 852 --- 979 AV 865 --- 877 - -- 965 Looks Like Im about 100 fps faster than factory..... I have roughtly 1500 rounds of this ammo loaded. I will definitely back down my next batch of reloads. What would be your opinions on shooting what ammo I have loaded?? The Tommy is a GI Savage M1A1..... 2Dogs........OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFalGuy Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Don't know if the ammo was still room temp when you fired it or was allowed to get cold before firing but I do believe the 24 deg. would have affected the chrony numbers- at least from published standards. I am no physics whiz or expert reloader but I will take a wild stab here and say that since hot ammo might create higher pressure and perhaps even higher velocity you should be darn careful shooting those loads when it get warmer later on this year. Another stab is colder air being denser whould hold down your velocity numbers (for all rounds tested) to some small degree resulting in higher velocities all the way around and your reloads in particuliar perhaps being over 1000fps at 70deg on a spring/summer day. Given the valuable nature of your weapon prudence may call for you to pull those rounds and reuse the components in making some kinder, gentler ammunition. Please be careful and safe- Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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