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Looking for advice on this M1A1


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Thanks for clarifying my point much better. My two sons are perfect examples. Both teenagers. They each have an interest in my collection of guns and militaria but neither will ever be a collector. The young generation now dont seem to want to own anything ..not even a house. I think collecting of anything is slowly becoming a thing of the past. Sad in many ways.

 

I have a set of Lionels that meant the world to me but no interest at all from 3 sons currently aged 39, 41 and 42. None own firearms but they love to shoot mine.

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I had two complete 1960 train sets in the big Lionel set box, a couple of 1950 trains and two Lionel girls train cars. Sold the girls train cars for $650 to a west cost collectors. Ended up selling both train sets in the large boxes to the same collector. My kids will each inherent a small train set when I am dead. Won't have any say on what they do with them because I will be dead.
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If you read the post from the beginning.....

 

And the model train topic has run out of "steam"...

 

Would this be a Rewat gun since it is an AO Bridgeport, US Property, Thompson Logo that is verified as an Urich manufactured gun? Phili, Richarson or Rewat is what he used for receivers correct? Just observations from the original post and photographs.

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If you read the post from the beginning.....

 

And the model train topic has run out of "steam"...

 

Would this be a Rewat gun since it is an AO Bridgeport, US Property, Thompson Logo that is verified as an Urich manufactured gun? Phili, Richarson or Rewat is what he used for receivers correct? Just observations from the original post and photographs.

Didnt urich make their own receivers??

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It looks like an Urich manufactured gun. There is a thread about guns he registered just before the ban. Some question as to whether the receivers were welded or completed form Richardson or PO receivers.

 

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15604&hl=%2Burich+%2Bthompson

 

Hopefully that link will work

 

See ^^^^^^^^above

Edited by Bridgeport28A1
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Are there cases of Bridgeport markings being added by post-war manufacturers of receivers? Seems like the receiver markings would need to match the address of the CII manufacturer, like they do on WH or Pearl guns.

 

I notice that on Vector Uzis, the Group Industries address remains (Group made and registered the receiver blanks), and the Vector address is added on the other side of the receiver.

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Isn't that URICH's roll mark beneath the rear sight?

Yes it is 03clyde. This thread has morphed into idk what but its interesting to say the least ha

 

 

This particular discussion is party about buying an M1A1 at today's prices and what you can expect the prices to do in the future.

 

I've been following the NFA MG market for years and I think the prices will continue to rise.

 

There are guys out there who will tell you that they were going to buy an MG 5 years ago but they held back because they were waiting for better prices.

 

And now they can't afford it.

 

 

Edited by buzz
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Are there cases of Bridgeport markings being added by post-war manufacturers of receivers? Seems like the receiver markings would need to match the address of the CII manufacturer, like they do on WH or Pearl guns.

 

I notice that on Vector Uzis, the Group Industries address remains (Group made and registered the receiver blanks), and the Vector address is added on the other side of the receiver.

 

 

Any gun could be a fake, maybe a pitted gun that was milled and re-engraved, a new receiver marked to look old, a reweld that was doctored up, etc.

 

Usually you can tell if you compare the gun to other similar guns.

 

The factory used huge industrial equipment and roll dies and all that stuff that's not available to a gunsmith or hobby metalworker.

 

So there are going to be differences in the engraving font, depth of cut, etc.

 

Plus you see weird looking finishes, like bluing that's too nice, pitting under the finish, a lack of milling marks and a lack of tool marks under the finish.

 

One thing to look out for is a straight line or zone of pitting, those aren't pits, they're porosity bubbles in a bad weld. Nature doesn't do straight lines.

 

 

If you have any doubts, post some pictures up here and these guys will employ their weaponized OCD and give you a ruling.

 

If you see something, say something!

Edited by buzz
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Are there cases of Bridgeport markings being added by post-war manufacturers of receivers? Seems like the receiver markings would need to match the address of the CII manufacturer, like they do on WH or Pearl guns.

 

I notice that on Vector Uzis, the Group Industries address remains (Group made and registered the receiver blanks), and the Vector address is added on the other side of the receiver.

It is my understanding you can put whatever markings you want on your gun as long as you do not touch the serial number or makers markings. I have seen lots of guns with markings added to make it more "correct" in appearance. Be careful and check all markings closely.
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  • 8 months later...

Just for grins I downloaded the very dark pictures of this M1 Thompson and brightened them up a bit to reveal the name. More questions. What does the number "204" represent?

 

Note how the receiver and frame mate up on the right and left sides. Something bad is going on here. Could this be a welded receiver? I do not know but look forward to responses of others on the board with some expertise in this area.

 

​In addition, note how the AOC name and address on the right side of the receiver are not straight. And how all the nomenclature normally found under the rear sight on the left side of the receiver appears to be missing. What is going on??? I would want to see the current and past owners ATF Form.

 

attachicon.gif SAM_2518 with light arrow.jpg attachicon.gif SAM_2519 light arrow.jpg

I am new to this site and trying to figure out how to download photos!! However wanted to let folks know I purchased this Thompson from Mr. Spiwak, and the upper and lower do mate together with no gaps. When he took the first photo the weapon had been disassembled and did not have it pushed all the way back. Also do not see any evidence of it being a reweld but you never know. This is a bit of an oddball weapon but purchased it as a shooter and not as a collector grade weapon. Spiwak was great to work with and states he will take it back if I have any troubles with it. I am currently waiting for my Form 4 approval so at my dealers right now.

 

This is my first Thompson but currently own a MP40 tube gun, M2 "kit" carbine, and SBS VEPR 12. I am waiting on a US property marked GM Hyra-matic M16A1 reweld to be transferred on Form 4 out of state to my dealer so could be a year before I take possession on that one. I had an M16A1 GM when I was regular Army with 101st Airborne Division. Finally I previously owned a M3A1 Medea Grease Gun and had a real one (Guide Lamp) in the Army Guard as a M60 tanker, so have experience with that sub gun.

 

I have already learned a lot on this site about Thompsons and hopefully I can help others on the NFA items I have experience with. Have never fired a Thompson so that should be a fun day!! Won't be like the greaser but should be awesome!!

 

Take care,

 

"Mac"

Edited by NFA amnesty
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By the way I am also interested in the history of this Thompson and the 204 TS Solomon. Trying to do some research on that topic but not having much luck. Could be a guy named TS Solomon had that placed on it but also could be possible "rack number" placed on troop ship Solomon (liberty ship). Not sure if Naval Armed Guards had Thompsons placed onto Liberty ships but would make sense in case of boarding issues, etc.

 

Anyone have suggestions on how to do some basic research? Guess will do a FOIA request with ATF but not sure if that will really yield anything based on redactions.

 

Thanks everyone.

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NFA amnesty,

Congratulations on your purchase. I know nothing about the Urich Thompson guns but put a lot of stock into the post by Black River Militaria CII, above. He has been in the Class 3 community for many years and has probably seen it all.

 

The first thing I would do if researching this M1A1 is ask Mr. Spiwak for copies of all the ATF forms he has regarding this Thompson. He should have the ATF form that transferred this gun to him. He most likely has the form from the previous owner showing where the previous owner purchased or obtained it. You would have had much more leverage with this request before buying it - live and learn. If Mr. Spivak objects citing customer confidentiality or such, tell him it is OK to black out the name of the person he obtained it from. You really want the earlier ATF form showing where the seller to Mr. Spiwak obtained it.

 

I spend a lot of time reviewing FOIA packets and can always find information unknown prior to the submission. A FOIA request is normally free and more importantly, the only game in town. Do not dismiss the results before you review the end product. I will be happy to review any FOIA packet you obtain. The ATF forms you obtain from Mr. Spiwak, above, will make the redacted FOIA forms all the more valuable.

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its not what they redact...its what they dont....through my FOIA i got the city where the gun was shipped to, the owners name from 1963 and even his fingerprints...i was able to track down his son, get an original form 4 w/ stamp and even a receipt for who he bought it from....i was able to work forward from that person and backwards from my dealer...ive got every stamp except for 1 and i should still be able to get that....with TD's help he took my 1963 receipt of sale and got it backwards all the way to 1940.......so it IS possible to gain some info from a FOIA...

 

i do one now on every gun

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TD and huggytree, thank you so much for all your advice and researching tips. I have reached out to Mr. Spiwak and will fill out a FOIA. Guess I was looking down on that process as I had a friend who submitted a FOIA on one of his NFA weapons and pretty much got nothing out of it.

 

Very excited about my new purchase and hopefully she shoots great.

Edited by NFA amnesty
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i would expect nothing out of Spiwak....but i had a very negative experience with him...id even be surprised if he returns your phone call..

 

you let me know what he says back to your request...i always ask for the old form 4 when i do the deal....get it along with the gun...asking afterwards you loose your advantage...now its ''work' for him to look it up....luckily the guy i bought my thompson from was excited to help....and each person equally excited...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update: Received old form 4 on my Thompson from Mr. Spiwak today. He and his brother-in-law Ron, have been good about getting back to me and sending out the previous form 4 and answering additional questions. Also willing to take the Thompson back if I have issues with it. Still going to file a FOIA per previous recommendation from Huggy and TD.

 

Thanks everyone for your help. May never be able to piece this all together regarding complete history but now have a long term project!!

Edited by NFA amnesty
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