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NAC, Interarmco, Kuwait, Import/Export Confusion


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#1 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 02:43 PM

This  August, 1960 GUNS article by William B. Edwards raises questions regarding George Numrich's business operations in the manufacturing TSMGs and the import/export of his firearms and firearm parts. While we know INTERARMCO (the firearm importer/dealer that was forced to change their name to INTERARMS in 1966 due to a lawsuit)  imported 60 Colt 1921A  Thompsons from Ireland to the USA  in 1956 at the behest of George Numrich, it isn't clear why Numrich required the import license of INTERARMCO to complete this transaction when by by his own claim he had import/export licenses.  

 

"Sometimes Numrich supplies sportsmen in far parts of the world, too."

 

https://gunsmagazine...18/12/G0860.pdf

 

Perhaps the purpose behind the purchase of this cache of Irish Swords was to supply a foreign nation with submachine guns. From the Edward's article:

 

"A typical recent order came by telegram from His Royal Highness, the Sultan of Kuwait Abdullah Al-Salem Al-Sabah. His palace guards are in rather urgent need of firepower in that uneasy kingdom. Numrich, as the exclusive manufacturer of the Thompson Submachine Gun, was in a position to make quick deliveries."

 

Both Roger Cox and GH have these Colts ending up in Kuwait.  One of the Colts, #426, was sold for parts on Gunbroker back in 2012 and purchased by board member Brian "bmarvin." Why Numrich didn't just manufacture 1921/28 model  Thompsons from scratch to fill this order of  "100"  aligns with  the reality, despite claiming to be making new TSMGs,  his only source for TSMGs consisted of the number of crated Thompsons he purchased from Fred Willis or to import existing TSMGs from around the globe.  

 

This may also explain the Numrich policy of stamping "N.A.C." after the receiver and frame serial number as it became part of the official BATFE serial number. The regulation of marking imported firearms with the importers mark was not required until 1968, Numrich  attempted to corral these  Thompsons made in 1921-22 and during WWII with Colt/AOC/Savage branding to show productivity to back up his numerous claims of  Thompson "manufacturing."  

 

GUNS magazine expressed interest in testing one of these George Numrich "manufactured" Thomspons, but were denied per the reason Numrich cited.

 

From the Edwards article:

 

"Where Tommy Guns Are Shot By Civilian Marksmen," Numrich post-haste pointed out that he was the sole proprietor of "Tommy Gun" and that the words were incorrectly applied to the Swedish m/45 "Kaw-peest" burp gun which was the subject of the story. However, we replied that we'd be very happy to give him a write-up on his products, and why didn't he forward a Tommy Gun for review like all the other big companies send the gun writers test guns? He shot back with the notice that people in all walks of life in the U.S. write to him seeking to acquire Tommy Guns. "But, hampering our excellent potential business in this direction is the fact that their remains an additional payment of 'a so-called transfer tax above sale price; the 'tax' amounts to 200 per gun extra."

 

 

It is also unclear why INTERARMCO didn't buy and  import these 60 Colts themselves as they were competitors with Numrcih in selling TSMGs to U.S. collectors as well.

 

INTERARMCO 1962 Ad

Attached File  Interarmco 1963 TSMG ad.JPG   178.93K   52 downloads


Edited by Arthur Fliegenheimer, 27 July 2020 - 03:30 PM.

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#2 colt21a

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 03:31 PM

Because most of it was sales talk and some b.s. we all know that already.And nobody is left to question those early days anymore.


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#3 TD.

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Posted 27 July 2020 - 06:37 PM

"While we know INTERARMCO (the firearm importer/dealer that was forced to change their name to INTERARMS in 1966 due to a lawsuit)  imported 60 Colt 1921A  Thompsons from Ireland to the USA  in 1956 at the behest of George Numrich, it isn't clear why Numrich required the import license of INTERARMCO to complete this transaction when by by his own claim he had import/export licenses."  

 

How do we know this?


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#4 bmarvin

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 03:23 PM

One of the Colts, #426, was sold for parts on Gunbroker back in 2012 and purchased by board member Brian "bmarvin."

 

I had forgotten all about that


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#5 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 28 July 2020 - 08:56 PM

"While we know INTERARMCO (the firearm importer/dealer that was forced to change their name to INTERARMS in 1966 due to a lawsuit)  imported 60 Colt 1921A  Thompsons from Ireland to the USA  in 1956 at the behest of George Numrich, it isn't clear why Numrich required the import license of INTERARMCO to complete this transaction when by by his own claim he had import/export licenses."  

 

How do we know this?


There was reference to the name change in the Deadly Business book, but I don't recall what it said or if there was a lawsuit involved, or if what's in there is correct?  HTH


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#6 john

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 06:13 AM

George Numrich seemed to have a bit of a "Business Attitude", not unlike J.A.C.! 🤔
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#7 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 09:15 AM

There was reference to the name change in the Deadly Business book, but I don't recall what it said or if there was a lawsuit involved, or if what's in there is correct?  HTH

 

Armco Steel Corp. v. International Armament Corp., 249 F. Supp. 954 (D.D.C. 1966)
District Court, District of Columbia
Filed: January 11th, 1966

Precedential Status: Precedential

Citations: 249 F. Supp. 954

Docket Number: Civ. A. Nos. 244-62, 3204-65

Judges: Jackson

 

"For the above reasons, the Court concludes as a matter of law that defendants' corporate name and trademark "INTERARMCO" is confusingly similar to plaintiff's corporate name and trademark "ARMCO", and that the ultimate consumers of defendants' goods are likely to be confused into mistakenly believing that the source or origin of the metal components of these goods was either plaintiff Armco Steel Corporation, or its Armco International Division, or both. Therefore, the Court holds that the defendants are liable for trademark infringement and for unfair competition due to their use of the name "INTERARMCO" to the extent that an injunction should immediately be issued to prevent future use of the name by defendants."


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#8 TD.

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 09:34 AM

Interesting. But not a complete answer.

How do we know INTERARMCO procured 60 Model of 1921 Thompson guns from Ireland in 1956 at the behest of George Numrich?
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#9 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 11:07 AM

TD,

You were speculating about INTERARMCO in these posts:

 

TD Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:54 PM

This only means the Numrich Arms Company owned and sold it at one time. It could easily be an import Thompson from the 1960's or 70's that was rebuilt at some unknown government depot before entering the commercial marketplace via Interarms or other such companies.

 

TD Posted 06 December 2018 - 11:37 AM

Numrich Arms could have easily purchased it from another importer - for example, Interarms.

 

TD Posted 05 November 2019 - 05:49 PM

This Auto-Ordnance Bridgeport (AOB) Thompson in the 134,000 serial number range was most likely imported by Interarms in the early 1960's and sold to Numrich Arms

 

 

GH has documented in his Thompson serial number periodical that INTERARMCO was the go between for Numrich to bring these 60 Irish Sword Colt TSMGs back to the USA.    To satisfy your curiosity for confirmation, you might want to contact the Herigstad estate to see if you can get access to the purchasing agreement between Numrich and INTERARMCO for this transaction.    

 

It is interesting that that some of the 60 Colts INTERARMCO got their hands on for George Numrich were in abysmal condition. It seems they were not part of the Kuwait shipment as  board member Nick Tilotta purchased #651  in 1996.   The condition of this Colt is described by GH:

 

"This serial number and most logos have been ground off receiver on both sides. To confirm serial number, Author removed barrel and gripmount. S/No. 651 was found. Original 1921 A barrel was missing. Some internal parts have been switched. Mismatched trigger frame No. 6459. Original wood refinished with brass tag on right side of stock No 661. Overall condition rough. GH 2/04"


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#10 TD.

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 11:59 AM

INTERARMCO/INTERARMS imported many many machine guns into the USA. Many were sold to other dealers, including Numrich Arms.

Can you please cite the page number(s) and specific edition in Gordons book for this information. It is not surprising INTERARMS purchased 60 Colts from Ireland. Also not surprising the condition of many/all these Thompson guns was poor, especially if they were former IRA guns. I want to see where the guns were purchased at the behest of George Numrich.
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#11 rpbcps

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 12:01 PM

If I am not mistaken, S/No 651 was one of the Model of 1921s discovered on the S.S. East Side, with its serial numbers intact.

 

If the over all condition is described as 'rough' sounds like an IRA gun, which spent more time underground in weapons caches than above ground, rather than an Irish Defense Force weapon which saw better treatment over the years being stored in an armoury.

 

Stay safe

Richard


Edited by rpbcps, 29 July 2020 - 02:17 PM.

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#12 Arthur Fliegenheimer

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 12:16 PM

Perfect example of how George Numrich deliberately created confusion with BATFE Forms in the 50's/60's.

 

jim c 351 Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:24 PM

My Bridgeport 28A1 lists Numrich arms in the maker or importer block. Numrich did niether. Its a C&R. As a mater of fact the word Thompson does not appear on the form 4.


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#13 TD.

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Posted 29 July 2020 - 08:39 PM

Again, can you please cite the page number(s) and specific edition in Gordons book for this information. It is not surprising INTERARMS purchased 60 Colts from Ireland. Also not surprising the condition of many/all these Thompson guns was poor, especially if they were former IRA guns. I want to see where the guns were purchased at the behest of George Numrich.

Regarding Jim c 351s Thompson, why could it not be imported by Numrich Arms and still be a C&R machine gun? A Freedom if Information Act Request (FOIA) request would show the registration history. I dont see the confusion based on your post. Maker - no; Importer - yes. Certainly a possibility!
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#14 jim c 351

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 07:01 AM

Tom,

I did a FOIA on the gun Arthur mentioned.

What do you want to know??

Jim C


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#15 TD.

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Posted 30 July 2020 - 08:24 AM

Hi Jim,
I would like to see scans of the 3 earliest dated forms.

Send them to: tkd5501@fuse.net

I am still interested in the purported deal between Sam Cummings and George Numrich involving the Thompson guns from Ireland. Not that I am surprised; I believe they and other businessmen during this era (Service Armament & Potomac Arms) were all friends and did deals together.
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#16 jim c 351

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Posted 03 August 2020 - 11:53 AM

Tom,

Sorry for the delay in responding.

Unfortunately I don't do scans. I don't even know how to spell scans.

I received 3 early forms. 2 forms are so redacted the date is even blacked out.

 

The third form, form M-3153, has the following info,-  7/20/62, Thompson submachine gun,- serial no.,-AO-134963,- model 1928A1. Every thing else, pretty much unreadable. I wrote the following next to this form --Internation Armament Corp,-Alexandria, VA

 

The next form is a form 2. Its dated 7/27/67, and has the following info.

Numrich Arms Company.

West Hurley, N.Y.

Thompson SMG

1928A1

.45

AO134963NAC

 

The next form is a form 5, also dated 7/27/67 and has the following info.

Submachine gun

10 1/2 " long

model 1928A1

.45

serial no. AO134963NAC

 

The next form is a form 5, dated 6/July/ 1989

Hope this helps,

Jim C


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#17 TD.

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Posted 03 August 2020 - 01:58 PM

Jim,

I cannot offer an opinion without seeing the forms. You can also take a picture of all the forms you referenced above and send me the pictures.

 

I am curious what prompted you to write "Internation Armament Corp,-Alexandria, VA" on the form.


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#18 jim c 351

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Posted 03 August 2020 - 02:08 PM

Tom,

What prompted me was either Devine inspiration or I called the ATF and inquired about the unreadable forms.

Can't remember which, its been to long.

As far as going to the trouble of taking pics and sending them, only to be told you can't read them either. thanks but  I'll pass.

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

Jim C


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#19 TD.

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Posted 03 August 2020 - 06:14 PM

Jim,

It sounds like you have a typical 1960s import Thompson. Without looking at the forms, I cannot decipher any clues as to parties. Bring the packet to TCA and I will have a look. And bring the gun too!  I don't see anything nefarious by George Numrich as Arthur was alluding to. Actually, I am not sure the purpose of this thread since there is no documentation to support anything that has been claimed. However, I did like the GUN magazine story. 

 

What is the title of the Form M-3153? Given the date, it would have to be an IRS form.


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#20 APEXgunparts

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Posted Yesterday, 12:08 AM

Hi Jim,
I would like to see scans of the 3 earliest dated forms.

Send them to: tkd5501@fuse.net

I am still interested in the purported deal between Sam Cummings and George Numrich involving the Thompson guns from Ireland. Not that I am surprised; I believe they and other businessmen during this era (Service Armament & Potomac Arms) were all friends and did deals together.


During the mid 1990's I traveled to the DC area fairly frequently on Army business.
Sometimes I had the opportunity to visit Potomac Arms, Full Metal Jacket surplus and even the offices of Interarms.
During one afternoon by chance I met John Richards (of Potomac Arms)
http://gunlore.award.../interarms.htm.
We had a great conversation out in the parking lot, among the nebelwerfers and torpedoes (that were on display)
He spoke of the relationship he had with Sam Cummings and Interarms.
Fascinating stuff!  We stood there talking for well over an hour.
I also did business with John's son Mark (Full Metal Jacket)
They used to have some great stuff in their stores!
John passed away many years ago, but I remember he was a staunch supporter of the 2nd amendment and was very clear on that point!
I wish he would have written a book about Potomac Arms!

Richard 
 


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