Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 1 votes

What's up with the "x" on the SN?


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Waffen Und Bier

Waffen Und Bier

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 733 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Like the name says "Guns and beer" (and really hot chicks who like guns and beer).

Posted 29 July 2020 - 01:10 PM

http://www.sturmgewe...h-2-50-rd-drum/
  • 0

#2 Arthur Fliegenheimer

Arthur Fliegenheimer

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3712 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 July 2020 - 01:26 PM

According to Frank Iannamico, it is common to find  an "X" added to serial number suffix as they are found on AO 1928AC TSMGs usually sold to law enforcement.


Edited by Arthur Fliegenheimer, 29 July 2020 - 01:27 PM.

  • 0

#3 Motorcar

Motorcar

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 769 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 July 2020 - 03:18 PM

Decent price for a Bridgeport AC gun, and neat that the "US" hasn't been ground off like most of the law enforcement '28AC sales.


  • 0

#4 Rimcrew

Rimcrew

    Regular Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 149 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:AZ

Posted 29 July 2020 - 03:34 PM

Even with the mismatched lower, Im shocked this one has not sold. Looks like a great shooter.

Am I missing something?
  • 0

#5 Waffen Und Bier

Waffen Und Bier

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 733 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Like the name says "Guns and beer" (and really hot chicks who like guns and beer).

Posted 29 July 2020 - 03:41 PM


According to Frank Iannamico, it is common to find  an "X" added to serial number suffix as they are found on AO 1928AC TSMGs usually sold to law enforcement.


  • 0

#6 Waffen Und Bier

Waffen Und Bier

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 733 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Like the name says "Guns and beer" (and really hot chicks who like guns and beer).

Posted 29 July 2020 - 03:41 PM

Thanks!
  • 0

#7 rpbcps

rpbcps

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 838 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:Thompsons, Lugers and good wine.

Posted 29 July 2020 - 04:38 PM

Nice, Savage trigger frame and AO receiver.

 

Stay safe

Richard


  • 0

#8 TD.

TD.

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 3526 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 July 2020 - 08:37 AM

Since the original nomenclature has not been altered like the normal 1928AC Auto-Ordnance Bridgeport (AOB), I would not be so fast as to classify this Thompson as one commercially sold to law enforcement organizations in the 1940s. Also, the frame does not match the receiver and is from Savage Arms, something I believe George Goll would have frowned on as president of the Auto-Ordnance Division.
There are original military Thompson guns with an X added to the serial number. A Freedom of Information Act request could answer many questions.
  • 0

#9 TSMG28

TSMG28

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 546 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio
  • Interests:WWII history, firearms, and accessories; Thompson magazines, especially drums

Posted 30 July 2020 - 09:49 AM

It appears to me that the whole upper has been refinished.  The barrel and comp should be blued on an original finish gun, and they are not. Also, the Lyman sight has the same uniform finish as the receiver.  The receiver may also have been buffed, as it appears too smooth, unlike the trigger frame.  I have not examined many AO receivers, but I doubt they would lack any machining marks.

 

I agree with Tom that the mismatched trigger frame is unlikely if this was a law enforcement 1940's gun.  Not impossible, as some departments with multiple guns did not always worry about keeping things together, but unlikely.

 

All of that said, I agree with Rimcrew that I am surprised it has not sold at that price.  Even if refinished, it is still a WWII gun, and it comes with at least one WWII L-drum.


  • 0

#10 Arthur Fliegenheimer

Arthur Fliegenheimer

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3712 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 July 2020 - 12:20 PM

9 year-old thread on the mysterious A.O. "X" stamping.

http://www.machinegu...8ac#entry114295

 

 

U.S. that was ground off  MODEL 1928 A with overstamped C with X after serial number,

U.S. that was ground off  MODEL 1928A with overstamped C with no X after serial number

U.S. MODEL 1928 A1 with X after serial number  

U.S. intact MODEL 1928 A with overstamped C with X after serial number (lower 80,000 serial number than the 150,000 to 160,000 upper  X range) )

X prefix on both matching serial number receiver and frame

X prefix only on receiver

 

Big "X", Little "X", no "X"

Attached File  A.O. 134669 AC no X.JPG   72.1K   6 downloadsAttached File  A.O. 150238 big X AC.JPG   85.1K   7 downloadsAttached File  A.O. 150238 frame big X.JPG   73.11K   6 downloadsAttached File  A.O. matching X 152547 frame receiver.JPG   84.69K   8 downloadsAttached File  A.O. 153009 x US MODEL 1928 A!.JPG   70.09K   7 downloadsAttached File  A.O. 80323 C overstamp with X and U.S..JPG   71.6K   8 downloads

 

 

 


Edited by Arthur Fliegenheimer, 30 July 2020 - 12:50 PM.

  • 0

#11 Motorcar

Motorcar

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 769 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 July 2020 - 02:49 PM

It appears to me that the whole upper has been refinished.  The barrel and comp should be blued on an original finish gun, and they are not. Also, the Lyman sight has the same uniform finish as the receiver.  The receiver may also have been buffed, as it appears too smooth, unlike the trigger frame. 

 

Bridgeport AC guns were usually Dulite finished and no heavy machine marks, may be original upper as it left AOC, or redone as you said.


  • 0

#12 Robert Henley

Robert Henley

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 1018 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:NRA Life Benefactor
    Unified Sportsmen of Florida
    The American Thompson Association

Posted 30 July 2020 - 06:34 PM

9 year-old thread on the mysterious A.O. "X" stamping.

http://www.machinegu...8ac#entry114295

 

 

U.S. that was ground off  MODEL 1928 A with overstamped C with X after serial number,

U.S. that was ground off  MODEL 1928A with overstamped C with no X after serial number

U.S. MODEL 1928 A1 with X after serial number  

U.S. intact MODEL 1928 A with overstamped C with X after serial number (lower 80,000 serial number than the 150,000 to 160,000 upper  X range) )

X prefix on both matching serial number receiver and frame

X prefix only on receiver

 

Big "X", Little "X", no "X"

attachicon.gif A.O. 134669 AC no X.JPGattachicon.gif A.O. 150238 big X AC.JPGattachicon.gif A.O. 150238 frame big X.JPGattachicon.gif A.O. matching X 152547 frame receiver.JPGattachicon.gif A.O. 153009 x US MODEL 1928 A!.JPGattachicon.gif A.O. 80323 C overstamp with X and U.S..JPG

 

Arthur,

 

So what is your opinion on the "X" added to end of serial number?  What does it signify?

 

Edit Add-on Comment: I guess the post above this one that states "usually sold to law enforcement" would be the explanation for the "X."  I wonder why they felt a need to add an "X?"

 

Robert


Edited by Robert Henley, 31 July 2020 - 06:34 AM.

  • 0

#13 Vettom

Vettom

    Regular Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 200 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Central NC
  • Interests:TSMGs, guns, more guns and C3 & C6 Corvettes

Posted 31 July 2020 - 09:17 AM

is it possible the "X" and a number was a part of some inventory system ? If every one has a unique S/N why do this at all? If some entity adds a X + a number has the NFA registration now not been altered and does not match the NFA records as issued? Maybe I am missing something here but if you change the number on a TSMG what happens on the next transfer? 1234 X# where before it was 1234 ? Inquiring minds want to know.


  • 0

#14 bug

bug

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1675 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:SE PA
  • Interests:Hunting, fishing, shooting, reloading, metalworking, woodworking, photography.

Posted 31 July 2020 - 09:22 AM

Somewhere I read that if a serial number is duplicated in the manufacturing process, the second receiver is salvaged by adding an X suffix. I can't find that in any ATF guidelines but I spoke with a fellow who had a Colt SP1 marked that way.

 

Bob D


  • 0

#15 Bridgeport28A1

Bridgeport28A1

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1446 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA

Posted 31 July 2020 - 10:34 AM

I was issued a TRW M14 rifle 1512512X, TRW had manufactured receivers into Harrington and Richardson (H&R) assigned serial number block. The X was added so to avoid a duplicated serial number. The X was added 15 plus years after WW so 1960 requirement can not be assumed to be a WW2 procedure. There were duplicate Springfield Armory and Winchester M1 rifles made during WW2 that did not have a X added at WRA or SA when manufactured. This would lead me to think there was not a US Ordnance requirement during WW2 to mark duplicated serial numbers with a X. Typically a A was added at a unit or other level if there was a weapon with a duplicate serial number.


  • 0

#16 Robert Henley

Robert Henley

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 1018 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:NRA Life Benefactor
    Unified Sportsmen of Florida
    The American Thompson Association

Posted 31 July 2020 - 03:46 PM

is it possible the "X" and a number was a part of some inventory system ? If every one has a unique S/N why do this at all? If some entity adds a X + a number has the NFA registration now not been altered and does not match the NFA records as issued? Maybe I am missing something here but if you change the number on a TSMG what happens on the next transfer? 1234 X# where before it was 1234 ? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

I think AO added the "X" to guns going to law enforcement (and registered them accordingly), but not because there were any duplicate serial numbers which I don't think was the case.  It must have been just to signify a law enforcement gun, but it would be interesting to know the thinking behind this at the time.


  • 0