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Savage 1921


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Is someone able to verify the pedigree of this gun? It appears to me that the receiver has been carefully modified from a 1928 to a 1921. I recall that there were 1921 overstamps, but the shadow of the 8 behind the 1 suggests to me that this was someone's attempt to make a standard 1928 gun more valuable.

 

If the actuator looks like a Colt's, I would definitely not shoot it!

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Is this April 1st? Dan, are you messing with us?

 

The EL OF 1921 all look as if either are photoshopped on or a re-stamp. Under the "1" of the 21, you can see the remains of what appears to be an "8".

 

21.jpg

Edited by full auto 45
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The "EL OF 1921"has clearly been over stamped on the Savage stamping. The edges of the original "8" can be seen.Obviously different font and deeper stamp impression.
Machine marks, finish and the serial number need improvement, too for a decent Colt copy.......

I've never seen a Thompson forgery attempt like this before and consider it to be a true "curio and relic" in that catagory. Very interesting.

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The "EL OF 1921"has clearly been over stamped on the Savage stamping. The edges of the original "8" can be seen.Obviously different font and deeper stamp impression.

Machine marks, finish and the serial number need improvement, too for a decent Colt copy.......

I've never seen a Thompson forgery attempt like this before and consider it to be a true "curio and relic" in that catagory. Very interesting.

I do not believe this is necessarily a Thompson forgery attempt. More information is needed, in my opinion, before that conclusion should be reached. This could be interpreted as a Savage 1921 Overstamp if it was marked in this manner from Savage. We need an FOIA document to further vet this Thompson.

 

David Albert

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Small town iowa where you can take a Tommy gun into the hardware store to find a screw for the lyman sight!

I can see it now: 2 old boys sitting on a bench in front of the store across the street saying something like Hey I see Dan come into town today. Looks like he has some kinda old case with him. Shades of growing up in the rural Midwest, Nebraska for me.

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As Arthur has stated above, the Model of 1921 Savage Thompson has been discussed previously on this forum. I find the 2007 and 2013 threads interesting. So much more information has become available since then.

 

I spent some time researching the Savage Model of 1921 Thompson while researching the Savage Commercial Thompson chapter for, A Thompson Compendium. Pictures of Savage Thompson S-150282 have appeared in, Thompson: An American Legend, and, The Ultimate Thompson Book, both by Tracie Hill and other authors. S-150282 is part of The American Thompson Reference Collection and will be on display at the Hill Family All Thompson Show & Shoot later this summer. Doug Richardson told me that several of this Savage variation existed but subsequent investigative leads all led back to S-150282. Until Dan's post, no other possible Savage 1921 was known to exist. That said, there is no documentation that indicates these two Savage Thompson guns are an Auto-Ordnance product. However, it can be stated with authority that S-150282 is a Savage Commercial Thompson. That in and of itself makes it a very valuable Thompson. As noted in the earlier threads provided by Arthur, many in the Thompson community, including me, felt only the very early Savage Thompson were sold commercially by Auto-Ordnance. The Hudson County Police Department Savage made guns in the 140,000 to 179,000 serial number range dispel this thinking. That S-150282 is a Savage Commercial Thompson is now not really noteworthy.

 

The history of the Savage Thompson that is the subject of this thread is in the 154,000 serial number range. It too could be a Savage Commercial Thompson but thus far nothing has been established to document that. It is noteworthy that the serial number is pretty close to S-150282. As David mentioned, a Freedom of Information Act request and response would provide a lot of valuable information and could make this Thompson much more valuable.

 

Please remember that Savage Arms did not make anything other than Model of 1928 Thompson guns as per their initial and early contracts with Auto-Ordnance Corporation. And Savage Arms did not sell Thompson submachine guns. Period. Savage was a subcontractor manufacturing guns for Auto-Ordnance. Could Auto-Ordnance have requested Savage Arms build a few Model of 1921 Thompson guns and supply the necessary parts to make this happen? Of course they could. But that does not mean it happened. S-150282 and the gun Dan has featured were made in 1941, after the passage of the Lend-Lease Act and at a time when there was a backlog of orders for Thompson guns from many allied nations. To spend the time to make a few special order guns for a small commercial order or two seems very unlikely, at least to me. Commercial sales were certainly made, but these were standard Model of 1928 Thompson guns diverted from military sales and sold commercially. As stated in A Thompson Compendium, I believe the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) was also a prime customer. I base this on Gordon Herigstad's collection of Thompson serial numbers from the FBI.

 

I am hopeful more information will surface on this interesting Savage 1921 marked Thompson gun. The research leads for S-150282 have long since dried up. Perhaps, this Savage will yield some light into what many people believe is a possibility (but not a documented reality).

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