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What Happened to all the Thompsons After WW2?


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I am curious where all the Thompsons went after WW2...millions made and barely any left. While many European countries adopted the Mp40. We sent M1 Garands all over the world....where did the Millions of Thompsons go? did no one want them? scrap?....

 

Was the Thompson just not wanted and melted for scrap?

Edited by huggytree
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Ha ha. Don't lynch me guys but I don't understand why we made so many in the first place.

 

Unless somebody is giving them to you for free or you are really, really desperate like the Brits early in the war, why would anyone want the Thompson?

 

Heavy, expensive, uses a cartridge that only one country in the world favored...

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.45 is better at killing than a 9mm.

 

Heaft could be one of the reasons.

 

9mm being more popular outside the us could be another

 

The guns were there. Free or close to free.

 

Yet no one wanted them . M1 garands are the same weight yet they were sent all over the world.

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Speaking of Garands, I'm going to really be a iconoclast today and suggest that every Joe issued a Thompson might have been better off with an M1.

 

General Gavin could have carried anything he wanted but he explained in his book that he jumped with a Garand loaded with AP because it was the best tool for killing.

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I'll take the first stab. When a new weapon is brought into the inventory, it does not mean all the "older" models are disposed of. They remain in the inventory and can be reissued to other units or personnel. Older model guns normally go thru rework and are stored for future wartime use (War Reserves). Thompsons were sent to our allies just like carbines and garands. Thompsons saw much use in Korea, and Vietnam. Many were sold to other countries as is the standard military sales practices. Some went to Police Departments, to Other Government agencies, such as the Secret Service, Treasury Department, F.B.I. and and Intelligence Agencies. Special Forces units and Intelligence agencies armed many small armies around the world in the "wars in the shadows". Overtime, when they were no longer "War Reserves" and no other use for them was out there Many were cut, the parts put into bins, and became scrap metal. Alot were dumped over the side of returning ships as were all small arms. That was not done randomly, messages directed what ships units etc and the War Department kept a handle of the amount of weapons returning for future use. There were also many Wartime storage areas filled with weapons and ammo around the world. Norway, Okinawa, across europe etc are examples. As far as what "you" would carry. Hate to burst your bubble but Its not burger king, its not have it your way... the Military has a "Table of Organization", and "Table of equipment". You are "issued" a weapon based on the billet to which you are assigned per the Table of Organization of the unit you are assigned. An example is M1 Carbines replaced 1911A1 .45 Automatics. The numbers of 45s were reduced and sent back to storage, and Carbines replaced the pistols. Yes some folks have picked up other weapons on the battlefield, but you still have to account for your weapon and SN. This is still the same standard practice. I have carried weapons as a Marine and as a DoD Civilian "Emergency Essential Employee". 37 years of combined (armed) service. Best example is where are all the 45s. STILL IN WAR RESERVES. CMP has not recieved ANY of them. The 45 I was issued in 1980 as a new 2dLT was a WWII gun. Our 60mm Mortars were WWII. Sights had been upgraded but the tubes had been in constant service since WWII. Still had a few M1 Carbines back then as well. Semper Fi Sandman1957 USMC 1980 - 2000 "Other" Government Agencies / DoD 2000 - Jan 2017

Edited by Sandman1957
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A guy I knew years ago said he occasionally carried a Thompson (M1 or M1A1) in Vietnam. He said he could use just about anything in the armory: Thompson, M3 sub gun, M1 or M2 carbine, M14, M16, even an M60 beltfed if he wanted to lug it around. Or an AK47 if he picked it up in the field. And what eventually happened to the 400,000+ M16s that the U.S. left behind in Vietnam is documented in "The Black Rifle" - the Vietnamese sold them for about $50 - $100 each on the open market. I would guess that many of the other firearms were left behind were similarly liquidated.

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Huge quantities were sold or given away under the various postwar defense assistance programs. Nationalist China and RVN were two big users. Many European nations received WW2 US materiel, whether sold or loaned, often for free, and Thompsons were among them (saw one in a new item on political prisoners in a Turkish prison some years back). Free and available right now has a draw all of its own.

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1.5 million is the number I saw

 

I think around 6 million m1 garands made (guess right now)

 

If given a choice Id probably pick the m1 garand also. Both suck because of weight.

 

Why did armies take mp40s after the war? Why didnt any use the Thompsons ?? Or am I wrong ? Israel France etc took mp40s

Edited by huggytree
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When talking about guns, one must be careful to separate actual facts from gun shop factoids.

 

The Thompson M1A1 weighs 10.6 lbs empty and the MP40 weighs 8.8 lbs empty.

 

I'm sure the extra 1.8 lbs made the soldier's arms pull right out of the sockets.

 

You hear a lot of people blah-blah-ing about this gun being better than that gun, but it's mostly just gun shop bubba talk.

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20% heavier. Add ammo. 45 weighs more than 9mm. Maybe 25% heavier. When I hand my Thompson to someone the first thing I see is the shock of how much it weighs. Name a heavier subgun ?

 

The non acceptance of the .45 might be the answer to my question.

Edited by huggytree
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As said before, the US stored vast amounts of weapons and other armament after the war years. As Sandman stipulates, a lot was "dumped" by order, I would speculate there was just as much combat write-off. During the Korean "police action" the US armed pretty much their entire South Korean military... a model somewhat for the future. As Communism spread, those countries that "resisted" or were perceived to.... received our assistance in the form of training and everything we had piled up around the globe. Hell, even Yugoslavia back in the 50's wasn't necessarily a US ally , but they weren't a Russian lap dogs either. Yugoslavia received (1950's) thousands of US Thompson's and 30/50 cal Browning MG's, rolling stock such as WW2 half tracks, Sherman tanks, various other "obsolete" armored tracked and wheeled vehicles etc. Later on ditto for South Vietnam. Concerning the Thompson smg, Just my opinion based on the "Red Menace" spreading its tentacles around the globe... I would speculate the US military inventory were probably never destroyed, instead sent to depots and drained off arming US friendly countries. ,

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20% heavier. Add ammo. 45 weighs more than 9mm. Maybe 25% heavier. When I hand my Thompson to someone the first thing I see is the shock of how much it weighs. Name a heavier subgun ?

 

The non acceptance of the .45 might be the answer to my question.

 

Huggy,

 

First of all, the Thompson was a successful military and police weapon and was well liked by the US and British troops that used it.

 

The Suomi KP31 was pretty much the exact same weight and was also a highly successful and well regarded weapon, the Finns would equip entire companies with them.

 

The Lanchester was around 9.5 lbs.

 

Is a one pound difference in gun weight really going to be a deal killer? It's not like all the other smgs were 4 lbs and the Thompson was 10 lbs. Most smgs were 8 to 10 lbs.

 

Even an UZI is almost 8 lbs and it's a tiny gun, a sub-compact.

 

The garand was spread around to our various allies, like the greeks, danes and the Italians. It's a 10+ lb gun and uses an American cartridge.\

 

To assume that a gun was not adopted by an ally because of ammo or weight is just spitballing, it's just speculation.

Edited by buzz
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If you read commentary about guns, even in books, you get lead up some blind alleys.

 

A lot of information is just stories that went back and forth for decades.

 

Most people will quickly believe a story that romantic or interesting, and they ignore the boring version that is actually the truth.

 

Unless you can verify a story, you shouldn't believe it too much.

Edited by buzz
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The number of Thompsons produced was close to 1.8 million. Of those still around, I think you will find most overseas in some form of deactivation or another, although there are still a number of countries with live tsmg's.

 

As far as what is better or preferred between US service weapons, I think there probably were GIs that swapped their Garands for a Thompson. It is all subject to situation and preference.

 

Andrew

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Thousands of Thompson's were given to the Chinese during WW2. Many more thousands were given to the Nationalist Chinese to fight the Communist's during the Chinese Civil War. When the Chinese Communists crossed into North Korea and fought the Marines at the Chosen Reservoir thousands of Chinese were armed with Thompsons. Here is a Thompson captured from the Chinese at the Chosen and used by the Marines.

post-37364-0-88686000-1513611522_thumb.jpg

post-37364-0-39539600-1513611534_thumb.jpg

post-37364-0-77124500-1513611641_thumb.jpg

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When talking about guns, one must be careful to separate actual facts from gun shop factoids.

 

The Thompson M1A1 weighs 10.6 lbs empty and the MP40 weighs 8.8 lbs empty.

 

I'm sure the extra 1.8 lbs made the soldier's arms pull right out of the sockets.

 

You hear a lot of people blah-blah-ing about this gun being better than that gun, but it's mostly just gun shop bubba talk.

That is why American soldiers were so muscular in the propaganda photos, heavy guns, big muscles

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