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Experts on Foregrips?


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#1 HANS

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 08:28 AM

Can someone tell if a Thompson foregrip is the genuine article or a copy? I'm trying to find out whether the foregrips mounted below the Winchester carbines found with the Dillinger and various other gangs were supplied by Auto-Ordnance (you could order them individually) or crafted by the gunsmith who converted the weapons. Unfortunately I have only relatively lousy photos like the one below, but perhaps the identification is easier than I imagine ... Thanks for your help!

 

Cheers

 

HANS

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Edited by HANS, 23 February 2021 - 08:28 AM.

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#2 Taliaferro

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 09:16 AM

This are pictures I took a few years back of the Dilinger guns on display in Tucson.

 

I believe all grips were original.

 

Tracie

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#3 jl7422

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 10:50 AM

Originals. Lebman had the hook-up to get factory grips,


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#4 HANS

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 02:08 PM

This are pictures I took a few years back of the Dilinger guns on display in Tucson.

 

I believe all grips were original.

 

Tracie


Thanks!

 

Cheers

 

HANS


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#5 HANS

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 02:11 PM

Originals. Lebman had the hook-up to get factory grips,


 

Ah! I personally no longer believe that the four converted carbines were made by Hyman Lebman. I hope to publish my research in this matter in the not-too-distant future.

 

Cheers

 

HANS


Edited by HANS, 23 February 2021 - 02:11 PM.

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#6 colt21a

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 02:42 PM

YOU MEAN THIS STUFF.yes originals got to handle it over a decade ago.And the tale about Dillingers car left here to pay attorney fee's.family got the car years later. and sent to body shop for restoration. and 2 21's found in the door panels. and seating area. the guy panicked. called Police GUNS gone.{I had a few questions  why would he not call owner of car to say what was found?} was not his property to turn over to anybody. Man there are a ton of plain stupid boobs in the world.RON K.

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#7 jl7422

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 02:55 PM

Can't wait to see the research!


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#8 HANS

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 03:01 PM

YOU MEAN THIS STUFF.yes originals got to handle it over a decade ago.And the tale about Dillingers car left here to pay attorney fee's.family got the car years later. and sent to body shop for restoration. and 2 21's found in the door panels. and seating area. the guy panicked. called Police GUNS gone.{I had a few questions  why would he not call owner of car to say what was found?} was not his property to turn over to anybody. Man there are a ton of plain stupid boobs in the world.RON K.

 

Thanks for confirming that the grips on the Winchesters were originals.


The story about the guns in the doors and seats is new, more details on that?

 

Cheers

 

HANS


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#9 HANS

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 03:03 PM

Can't wait to see the research!


I'm still waiting on more files from the FBI that I ordered via FOIA, literally years ago now. I've dug up two more converted Winchesters (in addition to the two seized from the Dillinger Gang), one in Chicago, one in New York. I am rather exited about some of my findings ;)

 

Cheers

 

HANS


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#10 jl7422

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 04:46 PM

Either of the two additional Winchesters in private hands?  (I know, I know. . . wait for the book. . . )


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#11 HANS

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Posted 27 February 2021 - 02:39 AM

Either of the two additional Winchesters in private hands?  (I know, I know. . . wait for the book. . . )


Unfortunately I don't know. One was seized by the FBI, that probably (although not necessarily) disappeared in the Firearm Lab never to be seen again by interested civilians OR was destroyed at some point. The other was seized by the NYPD. No idea what they did with it.

 

Cheers

 

HANS


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#12 John Dillinger

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Posted 09 March 2021 - 07:55 PM

Fair to say this is an original foregrip.
In the capable hands of the blonde bombshell Mae West.

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Attached File  20200902_161400.jpg   90.09K   35 downloads
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#13 john

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Posted 17 March 2021 - 01:11 PM

To all you experts on this matter, a question.

First, I have two WWII 1928A1 guns. I shoot both quite a bit and really prefer the vertical grip over the horizontal for better control.

The Savage-made gun that I have owned for a couple years now came with a very nice vertical front grip marked inside the rail slot with a "B". That grip appears a couple degrees more "backswept" than the pics of the originals I've seen but the angle and the feel are great. it's quite "elegant".
I know that one was made by Dan Block as I've been to his shop and seen his work. I know he made these by hand and this one I really like.

 

The other gun I have owned since 1999 is an early AOC gun (51xxx) and I bought it from a friend. He picked up a vertical grip for it years before I bought it from him and I don't know the history but that grip. It does appear to be the same angle, thickness and profile of the originals but is marked on the top just forward of the rail cut with the letters "SILE".

Always guessed it is not an original but if anyone can tell me a bit more about it, who made it, etc. I'd appreciate the history.

 

Three pics are here:  https://imgur.com/a/MMbkOiE

 

Thanks.

 

john


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#14 Bridgeport28A1

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Posted 17 March 2021 - 01:30 PM

I believe SILE was an importer of gunstocks of all shapes and flavors. They marketed stocks for shotguns, S&W pistols etc in the 1970's.

 

Edit: I don't consider myself an expert on vertical foregrips. 


Edited by Bridgeport28A1, 17 March 2021 - 01:31 PM.

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#15 gijive

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Posted 17 March 2021 - 08:07 PM

The other gun I have owned since 1999 is an early AOC gun (51xxx) and I bought it from a friend. He picked up a vertical grip for it years before I bought it from him and I don't know the history but that grip. It does appear to be the same angle, thickness and profile of the originals but is marked on the top just forward of the rail cut with the letters "SILE".

Always guessed it is not an original but if anyone can tell me a bit more about it, who made it, etc. I'd appreciate the history.

 

 

John,

 

Sutton Coffman did a recent story in the Thompson Collector's Association (TTCA) Newsletter a a few months ago.  I don't have my copy, maybe another Board member could provide the information to you.  He covers the SILE marked grips.


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#16 TSMG28

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Posted 17 March 2021 - 10:14 PM

From Suttons article mentioned by gijive above:

Sile Grip Company was one of the better examples of the reproduction grip makers from the mid-1960s into the mid-1970s. Sile made at least three different production runs of grips; some were marked SILE, some werent, some were made using the Colt pattern of grip while others were patterned on the Savage grip.
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#17 john

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Posted 18 March 2021 - 02:33 PM

Thanks all...love these boards!

 

This as you can see appears to be identical in proportions to grips I've seen on Colt guns - maybe some day I can get it side by side with a pair of calipers.....Marc?Incidentally, I have done a ot of woodwork and can tell this is not new wood, but it's not nearly a hundred years old. I'd say the sixties might be a good guess. Easier to tell looking at the image in my link with the top rail cut.

Anyway, it's thicker in the middle than my Dan Block grip....more palm swell but as nicely made.

 

Stay safe all!

 

john


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#18 anticus

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Posted 19 March 2021 - 10:53 AM

There is a horizontal foregrip that was made for the 1921, shaped a bit differently than the later GI type. I saw one in a bin at a gun show decades ago that looked brand new. The price was the same as the GI one I bought. Should have bought them both ! But I wonder if any repos of the Colt grip were made or was I looking at an original ? I don’t recall if there were any marks or stamps on it. Were they rare/popular ? I’ve only seen a handful of period images of Tommies with them.
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