Soviets, and their opposition, armed with Thompson SMGs

[rpbcps]

All found on Guns.ru website, where I am spending too much time these days.

 

 

 

 

and one from East Turkestan, dated 1949.

 

 

and one from Lithuania, showing Lithuanian partisans of the Lithuanian Freedom Army, also known as 'Forest Brothers', who waged a guerrilla warfare in Lithuania against the Soviet Union between 1944–1953.

 

 

And some showing the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, (UPA), a Ukrainian nationalist paramilitary and later partisan organisation, that fought a guerrilla war against Germany, the Soviet Union, the Polish Underground State and Communist Poland, during WW2. The UPA’s aim was the creation of an independent and unified Ukrainian state.

 

 

 

 

and finally Chetnik partisans in kragujevac, Serbia in 1941.

 

 

Stay safe

Richard

 

[anjong-ni]

Are these weapons thought to be 1921s or 1928s?

 

If they're '28s, doesn't that kinda demolish the accepted theory that the "imported parts kits are in such great shape" because

 

"The Russians didn't USE their Thompsons because they had plenty of PPSh's and little .45-ammo"?.....Phil

[rpbcps]

I would think they are 1928A1's from the Lend-Lease period, and perhaps like the early 1928's that arrived in the UK, the photo shots were for propaganda purposes initially? The same 1928's were used in many British publications in 1940 for that purpose I read.

There were a lot of Thompsons shipped to the UK and the Soviet Union during this period, and maybe not all of those that arrived in the Soviet union were used; as they had begun full scale production of their own SMGs, ( and other war time production), about the same time the lend- lease stuff was being shipped across to them? I read that 137,790 TSMGs were supplied to the Soviet Union by the USA during the Lend-Lease program, that was a lot of Thompsons.

They then may have been designated, as they were in Sweden shortly after their arrival, as obsolete and issued to second line units, which would not have seen much combat?

The Guns.Ru website has this post on the subject of the condition of former Lend-Lease Thompsons: "they were originally supplied to the NKVD troops and to guard the camps", not sure how true that information is however, but if true, I guess a lot of them would not have seen much action.

Same source, still on condition of the stocks of TSMGs, also has the following snippet on the Lend-Lease Thompsons:

"interesting and what caused the decision to transfer the Thompson to the Karelian front and not for example to guard the gulag where they shoot less and there will be no problems collecting the cartridges at the shooting range and not under enemy fire? ( text translated by Google Chrome).

The Karelian front saw the Soviet Union fighting the Finnish army, where I would have presumed the weapons would have seen a lot of combat in extreme conditions.

Post war, I read all the German weapons that had been captured by the Soviets were repaired, serviced, cleaned etc. before storage, perhaps the same was done to the Thompsons that saw use by the Soviet Union.

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/01/29/russians-to-pave-military-church-with-captured-german-wwii-era-guns-video

I have an example of two MG 42 drums with a carrier in my collection, that were stored in the Soviet Union following WW2, were they even repainted.

Maybe I have raised more questions, than answers with my reply?

Stay safe

Richard

Edited November 17, 2019 by rpbcps

[anjong-ni]

The videos in the links are great. Thank you....Phil

[rpbcps]

I just exchanged the MG42 drums with carrier with a dealer here in the UK, for a WW1 Luger holster, my other passion. It is amazing the history you can find from a few stamps on a holster, I love discovering the history behind my collection.

 

Stay safe

Richard

[allweaponsww2]

About Thompsons SMG in the USSR.

Back in 1924, the USSR secretly bought a large batch of Thomspons through Mexico. They were also used in battles with the rebel gangs in an republics of Central Asia in 1924-1927. Then part of these machine guns was in service with the Border Troops and the OGPU servise.

In 1927-1930, new submachine guns were tested in the USSR. They compared them to the Thompson.

During WWII, the USA delivered 137129 under the Lend-Lease. They equipped armored vehicles and tanks. These were the models M1928A1, M1 and M1A1. Due to the lack of production of cal..45 in the USSR, Tommy was not popular. Especially in 1941-1945 the Soviets produced ~ 7000000 of their PPSh, PPD and PPS ..

Many Thompson were transferred to partisan units. The Military Museums in St. Petersburg store an interesting sample - Thompson M1928A1 with folding stock. I suppose it was a remake in the partisan weapons workshop. They had many examples of the manufacture of weapons and various parts during the war years.

1) http://cdn.fishki.net/upload/post/2019/02/16/2879044/itxlaoo0p.jpg

2) https://www.collezionareexordinanza.it/uploads/source/2017/TOMSON2.jpg

3) https://s020.radikal.ru/i718/1301/da/14cc3e364520.jpg

4) http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attachments/world-firearms/73747d1262371902-thompson-serial-number-help-630542.jpg

5) https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Experimental-Thompson-SMG-with-a-Folding-Stock-2.jpg

Edited May 4, 2020 by allweaponsww2

[rpbcps]

 

About Thompsons SMG in the USSR.

Back in 1924, the USSR secretly bought a large batch of Thomspons through Mexico. They were also used in battles with the rebel gangs in an republics of Central Asia in 1924-1927. Then part of these machine guns was in service with the Border Troops and the OGPU servise.

In 1927-1930, new submachine guns were tested in the USSR. They compared them to the Thompson.

During WWII, the USA delivered 137129 under the Lend-Lease. They equipped armored vehicles and tanks. These were the models M1928A1, M1 and M1A1. Due to the lack of production of cal..45 in the USSR, Tommy was not popular. Especially in 1941-1945 the Soviets produced ~ 7000000 of their PPSh, PPD and PPS ..

Many Thompson were transferred to partisan units. The Military Museums in St. Petersburg store an interesting sample - Thompson M1928A1 with folding stock. I suppose it was a remake in the partisan weapons workshop. They had many examples of the manufacture of weapons and various parts during the war years.

1) http://cdn.fishki.net/upload/post/2019/02/16/2879044/itxlaoo0p.jpg

2) https://www.collezionareexordinanza.it/uploads/source/2017/TOMSON2.jpg

3) https://s020.radikal.ru/i718/1301/da/14cc3e364520.jpg

4) http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attachments/world-firearms/73747d1262371902-thompson-serial-number-help-630542.jpg

5) https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Experimental-Thompson-SMG-with-a-Folding-Stock-2.jpg

 

Already posted in the past, but here is a photo of Ukrainian Border Guards in a class room in the 1930's with a 1921 on a display board in the class room.