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Atf Thompson Transfer - What Can I Do?!?


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I'm at my wits end with the ATF.

 

I have a Thompson out on transfer since the first week of May this year. No big deal. I wait 90 calendar days. Nothing. Well, maybe is 90 business days - nothing. So I decide to call after about 4 calendar months and I'm told I'm still pending.

 

I wait a month a politely call back on the 5th of October. Still pending. I ask to speak to my examiner, Tammy. She is actually very nice and checks my paperwork and finds that "my fingerprint cards were not sent to the FBI to check." Okay, so she sends them off, promises to call me back in a few days, implying it wouldn't take long. I call her in a week, leave a polite message and don't get a call back. I wait four more weeks (this week) and, you guessed it, still pending. I call her supervisor Dawn, get her voice mail, politely ask her to call me and that was two days ago.

 

I really think I have been pateint with them and the last thing I want to do is be a PITA by calling them every week. I have concerns because I would probably still be sitting there without them sending my cards to the FBI if I didn't inquire about it on 10/05. That is the ATF's job - NOT MINE!!! I get promised that the cards would come back within a few days I would get a call back and nothing for a month (and counting). I cannot get an employee or her supervisor to ever call me back. All I want to know is what is going on and what I can do to help (if anything - resubmit cards, etc). I have other NFA items and never had such poor service in a transfer before. I submitted all of my paperwork correctly (to my knowledge) and was never asked to submit any thing since.

 

So, I guess I'm back to square one.... another 3 months? 6 months? I don't even know anymore.

 

Anyone have any advice (besides chill out) or stories? I have heard other horror stories of transfer times and always considered myself lucky ... until now. If the ATF was a business, they would have lost me as a customer for pretty much lacking any customer service when I need it.

 

Sorry for the rant. I want my Thompson!!!

 

http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/mad.gif

 

Chris

 

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Well, it's a minor story but an idea too. Fax 'em. Both Tammy and Dawn are very nice and have been very helpful to me in just the last few days. I've had some of my best luck if it's a sheet of paper with data on it that they can review/give to someone to check on, etc.

 

It's a try? Obviously put the serial number on it, tell Tammy you'd spoken to her and would like an update, bla, bla, bla.

 

Be nice. I know it's VERY hard but more flies with honey .....

 

My $ .02

 

Good luck.

 

 

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My gun was also held up for some minor reasons, but with a major time wait. If you are buying from a dealer, I am convinced that they get better responses. Maybe they can call for you. My dealer found out the problem and fixed it. After eight months of waiting, the transfer came through within the month.
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Am I dreaming or have people actually contacted the office of their respective state representatives to help with ATF issues?
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I FEEL YOUR PAIN>>>> paid the dealer on april 4 .......picked up my M1A1 on Oct 19 . Thats 6 and a half months. and this was my first class 3. I just about went nuckung futs......... First the finger print card did not have my d.o.b. ....do over.......sent back.......next my citizenship form was wrong.....my fault but I did not know.....do over .....send back....pending....pending.....pending...... Finally in an act of despiration I talked to the Sherriff who had signed my request for NFA GUN (he is also a personal friend) He gave me the name and phone # of our local ATF agent......OK..Set down.....put your coffee down and pay attention. I called this guy......Are you setting?? ......He was very nice. I told him I hated to bother him but I had been waiting six months. I told him I had tried to contact my examiner but always got a recording. He took all the info and said , Ill get back to you. YEAH RIGHT, I thought. Still sitting....Within one hour he called me back and said your approved!!!! I about fell out of my chair. The next day i called ATF and the girl said APPROVED!!. This agent did me a lot of good it may be worth a try for you. Just be polite and tell the man how long you have been patiently waiting.

 

My 02 , 2Dogs.....OUT

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Since I've "only" been waiting 13 weeks for one and 10 weeks on another I feel like a youngster on this thread. However, I have a differant twist to my delay. Last week I found out that a set of my print cards were returned to my dept by the FBI. Reason given? "We don't do print cards for the ATF." Keep in mind these were sent to the FBI by the ATF. To the best of my knowledge they are the only game in town and have been checking prints for NFA transfers since 1934.

 

Since I have no way of knowing which transfer the prints were from, both examiners have been contacted. So far, no explanation. I'm a very patient man for a valid reason but to say they don't do the prints for ATF is a bit thin.

 

Still waiting.........

 

Chuck

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First Sergeant.

 

Some clerk obviously gave someone the wrong information. Maybe a new employee at the FBI, maybe a new employee at the NFA Branch, who knows? Someone has the incorrect information. The fingerprint cards are checked by the FBI and this is generally where the longest part of the delay in the process occurs.

 

If the fingerprint cards were returned for a clerical error of some sort this could further delay the process. Remember, the NFA Branch is small and not a huge priority in the overall scheme of BATF. Patience and a polite attitude when making inquiries goes a long way in allowing the process to be completed successfully.

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I had a problem with a personal transfer about five years ago. Contacted my reps (won’t name names but we in Washington know who was of no help) and the transfer mysteriously occurred. It was the same run-around and phone tag until the director called me to advise everything was good to go. Have not had any problems since.
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GI Give,

 

I'm sure it was a newbie with the Bureau. Our Prints Officer spoke with 3 differant people with the FBI trying to straighten it out but each one he spoke had the same answer. One did mention the REASON for the prints was wrong. I've always used "NFA Transfer" in that box, not sure why that would be wrong this time.

 

Politeness goes a long way with nearly everyone in Gov't at all levels; city, county, state and federal.

 

Chuck

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Chuck,

 

Something just occurred to me while rereading your post. You stated the FBI returned the cards to your department? Are you a member of a law enforcement agency? If so, did your department use their own blue FBI applicant cards with their unique ORI? If this is the case, that may be the problem. The ATF should have their own applicant type cards that they provide so the fingerprint search results are returned to them, not the the person or agency that submitted the cards.

 

Just trying to figure out what went wrong here, aside from an uninformed employee at the FBI end.

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GI GIVE

 

Yes, you are correct on all accounts and our cards do have our ORI on them but they are standard FBI applicant cards. Never been a problem before however. The cards clearly state my employer, which matches the ORI. I'll check if they now require seperate cards. I would like to get this cleared up before I submit paperwork on an M1A1 I just bought.

 

Thanks !

 

Chuck

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One common theme on the rejection here seems to be the finger print cards...or in some other posts...the cleo signoff....something I have avoided all these years by going corporate...very simple to maintain and much easier transfers..no photos,no fingerprints, no cleo signoffs...just your toys in 30-60 days...something to think about... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif
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All-

 

Thanks for the interesting responses and advice. Its reassuring to me that others have or are in the same boat I'm in and there might be light at the end of the tunnel. I guess I'm just getting a little down on the whole process and losing faith.

 

I decided to take a combination of advice given here and 1) contact my dealer and 2) have him fax in the information (my cancelled check, etc) to someone he deals with in the ATF.

 

When I talked to my dealer, he seemed pretty upset at the service he was getting too. He said he had a form 3 transfer that was going on 5 months and the other guy wanted his money on the 50/50 transfer. He also said he had a few other form 4's that were going on longer than expected and he was going work on it Tuesday with the ATF.

 

With all of the technology available, you would think somehow that the ATF could cut down on all these phone calls and inquiries if they could set up a secure web site so dealers and people like us could log in and see what is going on with transfers. I know its a pipe dream, but I guess they assume paying an employee to answer the phone and do it manually is better. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif

 

I guess I'm dissatisfied for four reasons:

1) No activity with my cards happened until I raised the issue ... amost 5 months later. The cards should go out right away and no one there caught the fact that nothing was happening.

2) Not getting any type of call backs on messages ... why the hell even have voicemail?

3) Maybe getting to talk to your examiner live on the telephone 5% of the time.

4) Being promised to "get a call back in a few days". Don't say it if you aren't going to do it!

 

I know it is what it is and we are still lucky to have the right to own NFA items, but geesh.... the bottom line is there is not a damn thing we can do as tax payers and NFA collectors who pay the salaries to support this no-account system.

 

Chris

Edited by DC Chris
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Just an update.

 

Received notification that one of the pending transfers (Reising M50)is approved and I should have it by Thursday. Who knows about the 1928A1 (AC) that is pending. Identical print cards were submitted on both guns so that shouldn't be an issue. Maybe since both examiners spoke with eachother about the errant print card(s) the second transfer won't be delayed. I can only hope.

 

DC,

 

It was 14 weeks with the screw up; so hang in there !!

 

Chuck

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Thanks Chuck.

 

I am honestly happy to hear that there is some activity on one of your guns.

 

I'm on 26 weeks and counting. .. 6 calendar months and counting. My only saving grace is my dealer is has an indoor class three range. I can at least shoot it, but cannot take it home. I want to give it a good cleaning and oiling.

 

Hopefully I will have some good news before Christmas, but here is to hoping.

 

Chris.

Edited by DC Chris
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QUOTE (Arthur Fliegenheimer @ Nov 9 2004, 10:45 PM)
No doubt all the people who submitted Stewart Forms have helped to clutter up the ATF system only to eventually get their forms back stamped with the ineluctable "DISAPPROVED."

SBR's dont help speed up the process either.

 

 

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Hearing and reading of some of the horror stories on transfer times makes me realize how fortunate I've been on all of mine. The worst time I had was about 120 days on an M16 and suppressor. While the clerk was fingerprinting me she was on her cell phone talking to her shrink complaining about her job-I s**t you not. I was trying to ignore the conversation and therefore stopped paying attention to everything else while she printed my left fingers in the Right Hand boxes on one of the cards. Instead of a new card, she just noted the error on the card. No doubt it resulted in an extra 30 days. And she wasn't there the last I went for prints.
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QUOTE Why do you not want ALL NFA lover's to have the chance to own an MG? Are you afraid that your "investment" might depreciate?

 

I couldn't care less if $5,000 sears were rightfully selling for $5. But no one who has submitted a Stewart app in, or out of, the 9th District has had "APPROVAL" stamped on their form. All these people have accomplished is to flood ATF with paperwork that had no chance of flying, while forcing other legitimate forms to languish in the pile. Sending in Stewart forms before there is a final decision on the ruling is folly. These people seem to be counting on a slip up by an ATF employee to send a from back inadvertently stamped "APPROVED."

 

For someone who is constantly memento mori to anyone who deals, buys, or sells in imported former American made NFA parts, you seem to be singing a different tune when it comes to someone sneaking a form past ATF.

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Just an update - I called again today.

 

"NFA"

 

"Hi, I would like to check the status of a transfer."

 

I give her the serial number and my name.

 

Halfway throught my last name - "Pending" - doesn't even let me finish my two syllable last name.

 

"Can you tell if there is any movement on my fingerprint cards?"

 

"No... you just turned them in on the 5th of October".

 

"No I didn't maam. My compelete form set with duplicate forms, finger print cards and proof of citizenship plus a check for $200 was submitted by my dealer the first week of May. My check was cashed and I was told pending as of May 6th."

 

"Hold on". (Pause).... "Its still pending"

 

"Ok, well, you know this has been over 6 months now, I was told I would hear something within 30 days from the FBI since I spoke to Tammy, I want to see if there is anything that I do to help to get the process moving."

 

(Pause). "Well, you need to talk to your examiner, Jo Anne".

 

"Maam, I have talked to Tammy. I was told she was my examiner when I called over a month ago and she had my paper work right in front of her the one and only time I talked to her over the phone.,"

 

"Really???" (Pause).

 

"I don't really care at this point, I will talk to anyone who will listen to me."

 

(Pause) "Ok, let me transfer you"

 

"Thank you".

 

... and I get Tammys voice mail for the 4th time in five weeks. I leave the standard polite message around lunch time. No call back and I have caller ID at work so I didn't miss her call.

 

They don't know who is doing what anymore. I am so screwed.

 

So, lets recap:

 

* 6+ months and no movement since the 5th of May

* NFA has no idea who is handling my case

* No answers or callbacks from my examiner or her supervisor.

* Others are getting

 

Is it now time to draft a letter and fax it? Anyone know to whom? This is getting my blood pressure up now.

 

http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/mad.gif

 

Chris

Edited by DC Chris
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OK, OK, OK, I know we’re pissed. That’s not gonna fix anything. I’ve been there and I know. Obviously something is wrong and the real problem is that no one really knows who you should be talking to.

 

I don’t know exactly when it happened but somewhere in the late summer – up to and including October, examiners were changed and who you may have had in May is not now the same. Generally, if your package was received and “pending†before the change, the old examiner would still have the paperwork.

 

However, and I don’t know this for sure, but I’ll bet that somehow your package, or part of it, has gotten split between old and new examiner. That’s probably why they don’t know who you should talk to….?

 

I’d draft a fax. Simple but clear as to dates and events. Be sure to begin the dissertation with your name and Ser. #. I personally would address it to Dawn Henson. She’s a supervisor. I’ve spoken to her many times and she’s always been very, very nice. She just worked out a real FUBAR for me about 3 weeks ago. Examiners changed and my package was “lostâ€.

 

Send the fax, ((202) 927-8601)) . Dawn should call you back in a day or so. She always called me.

 

If this doesn’t break it loose, at least you’ve got your paper trail for the call to your Rep. / Senator.

 

My $.02

 

Good luck

 

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Try asking for the name of the branch chief of the nfa, and leave him a polite message. maybe he will call you back or at least unstick your application.

 

I found that the best time was to call an examiner was around 9:30 (got their first cup of coffee, had a chance to read the Washington post, etc. then answer their daily quota of incoming calls), or around 1:30 (back from a long lunch and a trip to the can). If that doesn't work, try calling every 20-30 min. Sooner or later, you will get the examiner and can ask what the heck is going on.

 

Don't expect a call back from an examiner. Everyone who I have spoken with have said that they don't return calls, in spite of what they say on voice mail.

 

Anybody know what the newly nominated AG has to say on gun control issues? Maybe he can unstick this mess.

 

Sniper

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I guess that is the frustrating part.

 

I have called Dawn. I did leave very polite messages that were clear and to the point. I never got any calls back.

 

I even verified a week ago that Dawn was still Tammy's supervisor.

 

I know these people are busy, and the last thing I want to do is bug them. I'm now calling once a week, and I really don't want to do that.

 

hardrede & Brickyard, I wouldn't say upset, just frustrated at not being able to get any information or get to talk to any real live human beings. It just seems like I am going nowhere and the situation gets more disorganized as time passes on.

 

Brickyard - Thanks (and to Mike, snipershot, everyone) for the advice. I guess I will draft a clean and polite fax to Dawn and see what happens. Thanks for the input and number. What do I have to lose at this point? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/sad.gif I wish my senators and reps were gun friendly, but here in the Peoples Republic of Maryland they are liberal anti-gunners... who didn't get my vote last week.

 

Chris.

Edited by DC Chris
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