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What do you guys think of this MP43?


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#1 tricky9914

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 10:06 PM

Hey guys.

I have been looking for an MP43/44 and one popped up on Gunbroker (https://www.gunbroke.../item/815216389). Looks to be a reasonable price. Missing a sight hood and appears well warn but original finish. All matching. He has had this on Sturmgewehr for alittle higher for 2 or 3 months with no bites. Do any of you guys see any glaring issues? I have asked for more photos.

Thanks!


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#2 83Baron

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 11:44 PM

With no other biters you are in the drivers seat to try and swing a deal. Unless you are in a hurry I would think for 24k you could find one with fewer rust patches and better finish. David Spiwak had a nice looking MP44 for about a thousand more up until today it seems. Keep your eye out since for 24-25k you should be able to find a real nice example.
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#3 Petroleum 1

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 02:23 AM

I saw the original add on sturm back in feb overall its not a bad looking gun imo but i would ask for some close up pics of the lower with the grips off. I think i see some rust around the frame area.There is another sturm for sale its on gunspot for $26k.Its non matching and rewat but in nicer condition. I believe its listed on sturm too for $25k. The rewat mfg is stamped on the bottom of the receiver along with the german markings that kind of bugs me but not really visible unless you go looking for it.

 

https://gunspot.com/...p-44-cr-form-3/


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#4 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 06:33 AM

The gunspot gun has possibly been cut in half, welded in at least 2 locations, stock has issues, non matching, messy rewat, and completely refinished. 

The gunbroker gun is pretty much what most MP44's are supposed to look like and is worth at least 5K more IMO.  My guess is the GB seller is motivated and would cut a deal for less with a direct message.  That's what I see, but I'm no expert.


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#5 tricky9914

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 07:21 AM

Thanks for the info, guys! I will continue the conversation with the seller and see where it goes.

I am with johnsonlmg41 on the Gunspot MP44... It has been completely refinished, rewatted and is non-matching. IMO the seller is going to have a really hard time selling it at the asking price.


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#6 Petroleum 1

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 07:35 AM

I agree with johnson 100% i have seen sturms with a pitted finish go for 5k more than this one and i am surprised it was not sold already. I like the patina that is has and like johnson said its is typical for a original WW2 sturm. That one on gunspot was on Rubens site for months he was asking 30k for it and could not move it. It just recently got sold for $22,325 at morphys last auction. I believe Ruben sold it at auction the new owner is a dealer in Phx. He is looking to flip it. 


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#7 Black River Militaria CII

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 08:10 AM

There is no evidence of any welding on the MP in the pics on Gunspot unless it is outside the pic frame. Where are pics of it showing welds or a welded area? It was reactivated by HR Guns, an outfit that did many reacs and did quite good work from the ones I have handled over the years. There is a pic of the front end of the receiver where the barrel inserts into receiver and it looks to be unaltered and clearly never welded. I've seen many dozens or more of this location on MPs in all sorts of conditions, reactivated from welding, DEWAT with welding, factory, etc, etc and this one looks factory. The Gunspot MP has not been refinished from what I can see in the pics and has a reasonably good but worn finish that appears to be altered in color, etc by the camera and lighting.
Multiple stake marks on the barrel crosspin indicating removal and replacement, and barrel is probably a very good replacement. Not possible to see if the gas and sight block rivets have been removed and replaced. Stock iron is crooked on the stock so something amiss there. I would require proof of reliable function, especially in fullauto. I've had three MPs in the shop so far this year requiring replacement of hammer and full auto trip parts for proper function in FA, expensive in hard to find parts and labor. FWIW

Edited by Black River Militaria CII, 24 May 2019 - 08:34 AM.

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#8 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 07:31 PM

Hole welded over where the pin went through the original chamber.   Looks as if it may have been cut in half about an inch behind the ejection port just behind the sight bracket  The finish on the actual receiver has no wear, the wear is all isolated to the removable parts......that did not require refinishing because they were not cut or altered like the receiver and were all re-staked after the receiver repairs.   The ejector rivet has been replaced and the one next to it.   Not really sure how you're missing all this?  It's all very clear in the pictures.....which is actually a good thing IMO.  If this is something Reuben had, did you inspect it and miss all this?  Or did you have some of the work done?

 

Or...

The German guard just left the factory, got shot immediately, dropped the gun and bent the attaching iron/ wood which is sort of a weak point.  Why that was not fixed is a mystery, but the damage was likely done post reactivation/ recently?  I've not seen any of this on my airsoft gun thankfully.  LOL


Edited by johnsonlmg41, 24 May 2019 - 07:33 PM.

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#9 tricky9914

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Posted 24 May 2019 - 08:24 PM

I totally agree. If you follow the ridges in the receiver to just rear of the ejection port, you can see where the ridges disappear as if smoothed out. If you compare it to a close-up photo of any other MP,  those ridges in the receiver continue and meet with the rear sight plate. Obviously something was done there.. Most likely a reweld. And I agree... It looks refinished, especially the stock. Good observations.


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#10 ron_brock

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:07 AM

If the gun were cut, welded and refinished, the description makes no reference of any of those enhancements. If the pictures are meant to show these but the description does not state that, the seller is hiding it or oblivious.

This C&R MP 44 is in great shape. The Barrel looks to be original has a good bore and is unmolested. This Machine Gun is on a form 3 and is ready to ship. I do E form . Thomas Stewart 602-763-8867 19 years in the M.G. trade. I will ship at asking price.

If it were cut, the description is deception unless Tom does not believe it had all the work done or his unmolested comment refers to the barrel only.

Regardless I would highly suggest an in person evaluation of this gun for anyone that were potentially interested. Has anyone liked at this gun in person yet?

Ron
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#11 Black River Militaria CII

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 08:02 AM

>"Hole welded over where the pin went through the original chamber.   Looks as if it may have been cut in half about an inch behind the ejection…."<

 

You must be talking about a different gun than than one I was addressing above which,  which is the MP on Gunspot. There are only 5 pics that I can see of the gun to assess and none show what you are claiming.

Where are there more pics of the details you are describing?


Edited by Black River Militaria CII, 25 May 2019 - 08:07 AM.

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#12 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 04:59 PM

https://gunspot.com/...p-44-cr-form-3/

 

https://auctions.mor...entoryid=464597

 

HTH


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#13 Petroleum 1

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:28 PM

I believe Johnson is talking about the area in this pic. Im not sure where the welded over pin is though.

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Edited by Petroleum 1, 25 May 2019 - 07:31 PM.

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#14 Black River Militaria CII

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 09:51 PM

The Morphy auction pics downloaded fine and I see what you are talking about. Wonder if the gun was cut in half and then it was discovered that it was registered so welded back together? Not the first time something like that has happened. Have repaired two MGs with that circumstance. One was a PPSh that was registered and the owner didn't understand that the reg paperwork made it legal and cut it in half. Someone told him to do that to protect himself. The other was a Jap 99 that had been cut in half and the estate found the paperwork, so I repaired it and returned it to the estate. Would like to see the receiver with the lower swung down below where it appears to have been welded together. Wonder what that would reveal?
No pic of weld closure of a DEWAT pin hole through the front receiver bottom into the chamber though....where is that pic?
I've not had this gun in my shop. BTW, I do all my own repair/build/reactivation work, welding, machining, making/modifying parts, touch up match bluing and finish work, wood repair, etc, etc. You can ask Ruben about my work. I used to hot blue and did for 15 years but it really is a waste of my time so I have a couple good shops to do that type of work for me. Same for metal finish painting. Still enjoy it and have an extensive clientele.
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#15 Petroleum 1

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 06:56 AM

Bob...that would be the only explanation why the gun is still C&R it must have been a registered firearm when it was cut up. I don't see the pic of the drill hole welded up either maybe Johnson can provide that info.


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#16 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 09:02 AM

I have a pretty good monitor, the pictures are great,  and know exactly what and where to look and since I've fixed some and seen many more.  Most 44's have it, since most were drilled and pinned and when I had a run of MP44 barrels they were hot sellers.  You don't put a new barrel in if it was only just welded shut.  That's an easy fix.
 
Ah, the pros and cons of the auction world.....buyer beware.  Personally I would have sent it back and asked for a refund at the price paid, but then again maybe the buyer thought it was a fair price? 
 
I'd love to see the cached ad for it before it went to auction. For net savvy guys, I'd paypal you $40 just to see it.

Edited by johnsonlmg41, 26 May 2019 - 09:16 AM.

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#17 Petroleum 1

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 04:08 PM

I wonder if the buyer knew it was a reweld?
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#18 Petroleum 1

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 05:33 PM

Johnson...is this the welded over drill hole you are talking about??

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Edited by Petroleum 1, 27 May 2019 - 10:51 AM.

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#19 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 07:21 AM

The hole is drilled generally to the left side of your circle or on the bottom of the receiver, but yes the signs are there.    Through an unnamed secret source I was given the cached pictures and text of Reubens ad for this gun.

 

MP44, 8mm Kurtz, German WWII, Reactivated by R Guns in Florida it looks very nice, rifling is great,comes with Original magazine. Parts are not matching.

$30,995

 

Probably had he included in the description "rare duffel cut MP44"  it may have sold?  LOL

When it says parts are not matching, I now have to wonder if the front is from one gun and the rear section from another?

I guess people will have to make their own call as to whether or not he knew of the gun being cut in half, or if he's been in business since 1985 and couldn't see it, or not bother to look?

As a side note, the photos in the gunspot ad are much better than what was in the original ad and none of the closeup shots in the original ad were of the main welded area in question? Could be a coincidence?

As has been said before, buy the gun, not the story. 


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