huggytree Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 (edited) seeing some rewat mp40s floating around for sale...also 1 that i suspect ''could'' be a rewat... if i see a replaced barrel it makes me think..... i know the manufacture date would be the day it was rewatted.....but that doesnt show up on a form 4 or does it under manufacturer....if the manufacturer is ''a german company'' does that mean its NOT a rewat? would the guy who rewatted the gun show up there? just trying to be able to prove rewat or not just from paper work since photo's seem so difficult for most sellers these days(sigh) also value--what value would you put on a rewat? id assume its worth less than a non-rewat gun in similar condition? or am i wrong? one ive recently looked at is refinished, new barrel and nut....it wont take bluing over the weld, so its shiny in 1 spot....yet of course the listed price is full price...just as if it was matching #'s..... is it worth $1k less? $0 less? $2k less?....just trying to get a feel for it.....im just looking for a shooter...so as long as the price is right i have no issue w/ a rewat, just so long as its appearance and function is good. Edited November 12, 2017 by huggytree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMGguy Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 (edited) Huggy, that's a tough one. IMHO, the only gun worth buying is an all matching example in original as captured condition. Lesser guns are just that, and it becomes a question of trying to decide what shortcomings one is willing to accept. If a rewat is acceptable, then I think you at least want one on which the receiver had never been damaged by the demilling process. Better yet, a gun where the bore had been plugged but the plug was removed without damage to the original barrel. Unfortunately, such guns command the same prices as untouched originals, as you've noticed. Edited November 12, 2017 by TSMGguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted November 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted November 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted November 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 (edited) here's one im looking at...its a 660, refinished....numbers matching except for the barrel and nut...it wont take bluing because of how they welded it ive put the price at the high end of what a tube gun will sell for....ive made him an offer today....its got its issues, but in the end its a 1940 660... ive asked for more detailed pics of he receiver and a copy of the form 4 https://imgur.com/a/vJ6w2 Edited November 12, 2017 by huggytree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawksnest Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 I would be proud to own it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83Baron Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 Whats he asking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroleum 1 Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 (edited) Whats he asking?$19k with the mags and parts kit Edited November 12, 2017 by Petroleum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted November 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 (edited) Mags may be refinished also. They look too good x2 I see the sellers post on another forum asking proper pricing. Someone said $20,000. What dream land are they living in? I suspect they did not see its a Rewat. If gun needs further work I have to have that as part of my offer too. Learned my lesson from Spiwak. Might need $500 to get running. Edited November 12, 2017 by huggytree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83Baron Posted November 12, 2017 Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 Huggy, I wouldnt rush a c&r, original mp40. Buy a tube for the itch. Spiwak looks to have a nice Wilson for sale, despite your past transaction. Why pay at or close to original price for one that is refinished, etc. and may or may not have issues. One day that all matching, bringback will pop up and you will be glad you waited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted November 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2017 (edited) my offer is no where near $19,000 on this gun....my offer is fair considering i doubt many would want it..i need to get it for low$$ because when it comes up for resale some day it will be low $$ just to sell...rewat guns never seem to sell fast......ive seen this w/ thompsons.....new to mp40's..seem to be lots of parts guns which tells me some are rewats, but not as bad im in no hurry, but if i find a deal im ready to jump....this is the first one ive gotten nice pics on...enough to make a good decision vs 3 fussy pics from others..... i doubt it goes anywhere in the end.....eventually one will in this case i think Spiwak is a bit over priced....Petro 1 got one for $12,000 a month ago....while i think he got a great deal, it still shows $14,500 is at the higher end for a tube... Edited November 12, 2017 by huggytree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhunter Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Someone else will chime in but I believe when you file for the rewat it will show whoever filed as the manufacture and revert back to the original manufacture on subsequent transfers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhunter Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Ill let you know for sure I have a Dewat 40 sitting here now and I'm on month 9 waiting for the stamp to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted November 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 So any mp40 w a new barrel is possible to be a Rewat then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhunter Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 I would say so, I saw a gun that had the original chamber reamed out and a new one pressed in to save the original barrel. And there is a guy here in Ohio that can laser etchEvery single German marking and serial number too on your repop barrel. Your buying a really expensive piece of paper but no more then 4K in parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black River Militaria CII Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) Lot of misinformation above. First, a registered DEWAT is lawfully a "live" MG, in spite of being deactivated since it has a complete receiver. The deactivation is merely an exemption from paying the transfer tax and allowing specific exemptions for lawful interstate movement and transfer and transfer to legal heirs, etc, etc. Second, original registration information NEVER changes, except for correction if needed. A registered DEWAT retains its original registration manufacturer's ID. Reactivation of a registered DEWAT does NOT change the registration manufacturer's ID. The date of registration of the DEWAT is the determinant for all legal purposes. A reactivated DEWAT is not "manufactured" under the same definition as a newly manufactured receiver, so the date of reactivation is NOT the date of manufacture, and the reactivation date carries no legal weight as it does for a remanufactured or newly manufactured MG receiver. A registered DEWAT can exist in three forms: a DEWAT registered prior to or during the '68 Amnesty; a live MG, registered prior to or during the '68 Amnesty rendered inoperable after the end of the '68 Amnesty, done for any number of reasons by a registrant; a remanufactured MG, registered post '68 amnesty that has been rendered inoperable, also for any number of reasons by the registrant. Virtually all registered DEWATS registered between '34 and the end of the '68 Amnesty are eligible for C+R status. DEWATs register by 4467 forms during the Amnesty are C+R eligible. MGs that were registered as live MGs post-amnesty and then rendered inoperable are not eligible for C+R transfer, again, until they have reached the age of 50 years from the date of manufacture. Such MGs are not common.So, if an MG appears unlikely to have been registered prior to the endif the '68 amnesty for some reason, it is a good idea for the registrant to ask what the date of registration is of the gun to determine if it is eligible for C+R transfer or not. There are many bogus C+R MGs in the registry, but that is outside the scope of my observations.Registered DEWATS need to be transferred now on F5s and the appropriate paper trail followed for reactivations. There are some shortcuts that can be taken to reduce the number of transfers from first F5 transfer from seller.There are more details concerning the realm of DEWATs but the above hopefully will dispel some of the misinformation posted. The breech face of the MP40 shown above was welded across the breech face and then the weld was punched out by means of a rod down the barrel and pressed or hammered until the weld broke and pulled the metal of the breech face away in the scallop pattern in the pic. The welded areas, unless annealed before punching out, are brittle due to the welding heat, and will fracture as pictured. This can be repaired and the barrel returned to function. Unfortunately stainless steel weld rod was used to deactivate some DEWATs and unless the stainless weld is removed and replaced with mild steel weld, the stainless will not blue or park. I have repaired quite a few vintage examples of such problems and am now encountering it with four piece welded semi auto MG42 receivers! Edited November 13, 2017 by Black River Militaria CII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted November 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Thanks bob Other than lack of bluing do you see anything wrong with this rewat? Your info is helpful. I read lots of things all over the web on this issue. I see you in many of those posts So to Id a rewat you need an expert in some cases. If the barrel and nut are replaced its very likely a rewat? Safe to assume many or most like this are ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black River Militaria CII Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) >Other than lack of bluing do you see anything wrong with this rewat?< Reblue looks like the usual black oxide And Is reasonably well done with a minimum of metal alteration in evidence. Bore appears only fair with worn rifling and pitting, but it might clean up a bit. Removal of the remaining penetration of stainless welding on the breechface and the small spot of remaining stainless weld the front of the receiver could also be repaired, it repair would be expensive and require anorher revlue. Advantage of this gun is that mechanical and cosmetic repairs can be done without affecting the value as long as the repairs are well done. >So to Id a rewat you need an expert in some cases. If the barrel and nut are replaced its very likely a rewat?< If there is any question about whether an MG has been deactivated and reactivated, someone with experience needs to see it and assess the gun. It is alsmost impossible to reactivate an MG that has had the breech welded and the barrel welded to the receiver and not leave traces of the processes. However, DEWATing occurred in many, many different ways, at different times and many different materials with some very non-intrusive deactivations leaving no evidence. MGs with light deactivation repair leaving no trace are just as valuable as an MG that was never deactivated, so a reactivated DEWAT is not always worth less as popular understanding claims. The details of an MGs condition is always paramount so if there is no evidence of reactivation, then that issue does not carry any weight as far as value. With MP40s, generally speaking, replaced barrels and nuts indicate a reactivated DEWAT, but as usual, not always. Other details should help support such evidence that the gun was reactivated.The MP in the pics has the muzzle cap mount and flat magwell with no hole so as an early, transitional example it has some mitigating aspects despite the reble and other detractions. >Safe to assume many or most like this are?< Well, assume nothing and verify by personal inspection or inspection by an experienced person of the gun to discover and reveal any issues that affect the guns value and desireability. Again, assume nothing! Edited November 13, 2017 by Black River Militaria CII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted November 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) my offer reflects all the issues with this gun....i am to discuss this gun with the seller tonight...i dont plan to budge on my offer as i dont think they are lining up for this gun...it will always be the ugly duckling to potential buyers......i found it odd they chose a mediocre barrel to replace the original one with....i havanye a suomi barrel that looks exactly the same....like its dirty, but its not...i assume its corrosion thats partially blown out...ok for a sub gun to shoot 1000 rounds a year for 20-30 years id assume...but its another negative to this gun what value does anyone put on the parts kit? its all reblued....so the parts are limited in value to going with this gun...it still adds some value as id want spare parts and these can drop right in w/o a finish difference....but its missing most of the good parts (barrel,bolt,spring housing, firing pin).....i dont value it much at all, but i see complete kits for $2500 (asking price) Edited November 13, 2017 by huggytree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83Baron Posted November 13, 2017 Report Share Posted November 13, 2017 Huggy, why negotiate against yourself and try to justify it. I would pass on this because you will find better. Just takes a little time and patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted November 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2017 (edited) Compare it to a tube. Nice tube. $13,500. Rubens sold quick for $14,999 My offer on this is tube gun range w all the extras. At my price Ill be happy. Talked with the broker tonight. Nice guy. Gave him a couple of days to accept the offer. Doesnt sound like anyone else wants it. It now depends on if the seller wants to cash out. Or wait on it for year When comparing it to tube gun price its a decent gun No collector will ever dream about it. Good thing about this Rewat discussion is I understand it better now and understand how mp40s are effected by this Maybe more than other guns in terms of numbers. If I see a replacement barrel I will instantly be suspicious Edited November 14, 2017 by huggytree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted November 14, 2017 Report Share Posted November 14, 2017 Still look and shop around the minute you cut the check to buy this one will come out of space. All original and a correct gun. And you will be bucks out for this one. And say Darn just a little time more. I normally over the decades never got stuck looked waited and when many showed I bought it. Once bought a posty and a pre-86 and a fine original came up, I snapped it up for $6500 I already paid 3000 grand for the other two already but figured can sell now and have another Original that was only 9500 for three MP-40'S today that might run you over 30 grand to do the same thing. Just shop look around. And a few more will turn up I am sure.be 100% pleased in the purchase not just oh well I got one. And later when you look at it Regret. Colt 21A Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggytree Posted November 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2017 agreed....Frank ATF's one is still a contender if his pricing can come back to earth....in a month or so it will and im sure 1-3 more will show up in the next 30 days also... not in a hurry as ive got so many already in jail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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