Jump to content


Photo

My Type 11


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 michaelkih

michaelkih

    RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 645 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 June 2018 - 04:55 AM

I'm over the moon right now. Only 29,000 Japanese Type 11s were made over a period of 20 years, and almost all were destroyed obviously. It's a funky machine gun with an odd, but cool feeding system, and was designed in 1922, when guns were skillfully machined with tight tolerances, because countries still had the time and resources needed to build guns that way. I have wanted one for years but finding one was hard, and finding one that was nice was seeming to be impossible.

 

After years of looking for the right one, I have finally found it! It's a matching and original nearly mint condition example from the Kokura, Tokyo factory, and was made in April of 1942.  It runs perfectly too!  Just as good as finding the gun itself, are all of the parts and spare parts included with it! Original sling, muzzle cover, spare bolts, springs, barrel, pins, etc. You just DO NOT find spare parts for these guns! The seller was a super nice guy, and I feel lucky to have found this package deal, as I probably would have never found a package like this one ever again.  Thanks for looking!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Attached Files


Edited by michaelkih, 11 June 2018 - 07:43 AM.

  • 1

#2 Adg105200

Adg105200

    Regular Member

  • Board Donor
  • 683 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eastern USA
  • Interests:Ww2, Thompsons & many other guns, hunting, fishing, tools, woodworking

Posted 11 June 2018 - 04:59 AM

Wow, definitely a unique piece. I don't think I've ever seen one before (that I can recall). Do you shoot it much?

Thanks for sharing.

Andrew
  • 0

#3 michaelkih

michaelkih

    RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 645 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 June 2018 - 05:19 AM

Definitely unique.  I have never ever seen one matching before inside and out, so I feel extremely lucky.

 

I have not shot it yet, since I just got it not too long ago.  I do have 300 loaded rounds from the seller, and the recipie from him to make more.  1000 brass cases and 2000 projectiles headed to my house right now too.  I won't shoot it much, but I always like to have more ammo than I plan on shooting.


Edited by michaelkih, 11 June 2018 - 05:19 AM.

  • 0

#4 Sandman1957

Sandman1957

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1003 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern Neck VA
  • Interests:Submachinegun NFA collecting
    History
    Scuba Diving
    Hunting

Posted 11 June 2018 - 06:22 AM

   Nice looking gun!  Looks better than some in the USMC museum, but so does 3148!  You still have a guided tour awaitiing you.  There are plenty of Japanese items on display that you will appreciate far more than others.  You need to start planning your trip out this way.

Cheers

Sandman1957


  • 0

#5 timkel

timkel

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Donor
  • 1123 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:NRA Patron member
    Atlas Shrugged

Posted 11 June 2018 - 07:20 AM

Nice score!... Is that some type of hopper feed?


  • 0

#6 michaelkih

michaelkih

    RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 645 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 June 2018 - 07:33 AM

   Nice looking gun!  Looks better than some in the USMC museum, but so does 3148!  You still have a guided tour awaitiing you.  There are plenty of Japanese items on display that you will appreciate far more than others.  You need to start planning your trip out this way.

Cheers

Sandman1957

Thank you Steve!  Yes, I really want to head over there, and I will.  Let me get life settled down some first, and I really look forward to it.  Thanks for #3148 again.  It's perfect, and thanks for everything that you have helped me out with over the past year or so.


  • 0

#7 michaelkih

michaelkih

    RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 645 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 June 2018 - 07:38 AM

Nice score!... Is that some type of hopper feed?

Yes.  It feeds from 6 loaded stripper clips loaded in the side hopper and the spring loaded lever closed down on it.  Very unique, and it actually works!


  • 0

#8 Black River Militaria CII

Black River Militaria CII

    Industry Expert

  • Regular Group
  • 683 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 June 2018 - 08:55 PM

This new page is a very nice addition to the site. For my first contribution, some of the Japanese LMGs in my collection. I have included the gun and the magazine for it that has never been revealed as the true culprit in cutting off finger tips. The T11 hopper cover has mythically and incorrectly been blamed for this griseley accident since the hopper cover has a powerful spring to keep downward pressure on the cartridges in the hopper and it can close on fingers by accident fairly easily while loading. However, the edge of the hopper cannot do such serious damage nor is the spring powerful enough to effect it either.

The LMG using the pie shaped magazine that held 15 five round strippers was the bomber armed T89, a pair of which, left and right, were mounted on their sides on a special cradle and book-end matched pie shaped magazines were used to feed the guns, one left handed and the other right handed.

As can be seen in the pics with three strippers loaded in the mag, fully loaded, the 15 loaded strippers are moved through the arc of the magazine by a flat paddle. The spring torque on the paddle is probably easily 100 pounds or more and cannot be moved or held back by hand. Rotating the paddle counter clockwise takes great effort and for loading these magazines the Japanese armorers used a mechanical device specifically for the purpose of drawing the paddle fully back and holding it in place so that strippers can be loaded into the mag. In the circumstance that the mechanical device is not available, or the loading machine malfunctioned, and the paddle is rotated back by hand and accidentally released while close to fully rotated, a finger that is in way, violently driven against the thin edge of the diagonal top plate can easily be sheared off. This magazine is the dangerous one, not the T11 hopper lid.

A bit of Japanese MG folklore to correct a longstanding and persistent misunderstanding. FWIW

Attached File  Jap. LMGs BMG-0.JPG   68.63K   22 downloadsAttached File  Jap. LMGs BRM-1.JPG   87.69K   20 downloadsAttached File  Jap. LMGs BRM-2.JPG   89.71K   12 downloadsAttached File  Jap. LMGs BRM-2.JPG   89.71K   12 downloadsAttached File  Jap. T89 LMG-0.JPG   62.77K   19 downloadsAttached File  Jap. 89 LMG-1.JPG   123.35K   14 downloadsAttached File  Jap. T89 LMG-2.JPG   85.05K   15 downloadsAttached File  Jap. T89 LMG-3.JPG   143.08K   14 downloads


  • 0

#9 dalbert

dalbert

    Website Owner

  • Admin
  • 4581 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 11 June 2018 - 09:16 PM

Wow, I don't remember seeing one of the pie-shaped magazines before.  Thanks for posting the photos and background.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com


  • 0

#10 JJX

JJX

    Regular Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 155 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 June 2018 - 09:31 PM

Congratulations on getting such an uncommon and interesting piece in great condition.

Looks like a lot of fun.


  • 0

#11 michaelkih

michaelkih

    RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 645 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 June 2018 - 10:34 PM

This new page is a very nice addition to the site. For my first contribution, some of the Japanese LMGs in my collection. I have included the gun and the magazine for it that has never been revealed as the true culprit in cutting off finger tips. The T11 hopper cover has mythically and incorrectly been blamed for this griseley accident since the hopper cover has a powerful spring to keep downward pressure on the cartridges in the hopper and it can close on fingers by accident fairly easily while loading. However, the edge of the hopper cannot do such serious damage nor is the spring powerful enough to effect it either.

The LMG using the pie shaped magazine that held 15 five round strippers was the bomber armed T89, a pair of which, left and right, were mounted on their sides on a special cradle and book-end matched pie shaped magazines were used to feed the guns, one left handed and the other right handed.

As can be seen in the pics with three strippers loaded in the mag, fully loaded, the 15 loaded strippers are moved through the arc of the magazine by a flat paddle. The spring torque on the paddle is probably easily 100 pounds or more and cannot be moved or held back by hand. Rotating the paddle counter clockwise takes great effort and for loading these magazines the Japanese armorers used a mechanical device specifically for the purpose of drawing the paddle fully back and holding it in place so that strippers can be loaded into the mag. In the circumstance that the mechanical device is not available, or the loading machine malfunctioned, and the paddle is rotated back by hand and accidentally released while close to fully rotated, a finger that is in way, violently driven against the thin edge of the diagonal top plate can easily be sheared off. This magazine is the dangerous one, not the T11 hopper lid.

A bit of Japanese MG folklore to correct a longstanding and persistent misunderstanding. FWIW

attachicon.gif Jap. LMGs BMG-0.JPGattachicon.gif Jap. LMGs BRM-1.JPGattachicon.gif Jap. LMGs BRM-2.JPGattachicon.gif Jap. LMGs BRM-2.JPGattachicon.gif Jap. T89 LMG-0.JPGattachicon.gif Jap. 89 LMG-1.JPGattachicon.gif Jap. T89 LMG-2.JPGattachicon.gif Jap. T89 LMG-3.JPG

I was hoping you would reply Bob.  Always enjoy hearing bout your MGs!  i see you have a Type 11 too.  How does it compare to some of the other Japanese MGs?


  • 0

#12 Sandman1957

Sandman1957

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 1003 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern Neck VA
  • Interests:Submachinegun NFA collecting
    History
    Scuba Diving
    Hunting

Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:13 AM

Superb collection!


  • 0

#13 timkel

timkel

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Board Donor
  • 1123 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:NRA Patron member
    Atlas Shrugged

Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:28 AM

This new page is a very nice addition to the site. For my first contribution, some of the Japanese LMGs in my collection. I have included the gun and the magazine for it that has never been revealed as the true culprit in cutting off finger tips. The T11 hopper cover has mythically and incorrectly been blamed for this griseley accident since the hopper cover has a powerful spring to keep downward pressure on the cartridges in the hopper and it can close on fingers by accident fairly easily while loading. However, the edge of the hopper cannot do such serious damage nor is the spring powerful enough to effect it either.

The LMG using the pie shaped magazine that held 15 five round strippers was the bomber armed T89, a pair of which, left and right, were mounted on their sides on a special cradle and book-end matched pie shaped magazines were used to feed the guns, one left handed and the other right handed.

As can be seen in the pics with three strippers loaded in the mag, fully loaded, the 15 loaded strippers are moved through the arc of the magazine by a flat paddle. The spring torque on the paddle is probably easily 100 pounds or more and cannot be moved or held back by hand. Rotating the paddle counter clockwise takes great effort and for loading these magazines the Japanese armorers used a mechanical device specifically for the purpose of drawing the paddle fully back and holding it in place so that strippers can be loaded into the mag. In the circumstance that the mechanical device is not available, or the loading machine malfunctioned, and the paddle is rotated back by hand and accidentally released while close to fully rotated, a finger that is in way, violently driven against the thin edge of the diagonal top plate can easily be sheared off. This magazine is the dangerous one, not the T11 hopper lid.

A bit of Japanese MG folklore to correct a longstanding and persistent misunderstanding. FWIW

attachicon.gif Jap. LMGs BMG-0.JPGattachicon.gif Jap. LMGs BRM-1.JPGattachicon.gif Jap. LMGs BRM-2.JPGattachicon.gif Jap. LMGs BRM-2.JPGattachicon.gif Jap. T89 LMG-0.JPGattachicon.gif Jap. 89 LMG-1.JPGattachicon.gif Jap. T89 LMG-2.JPGattachicon.gif Jap. T89 LMG-3.JPG

There is a lot of history hanging on that wall. Did you find any red sand in any of those?


  • 0

#14 83Baron

83Baron

    Regular Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 302 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:35 AM

Very cool!
  • 0

#15 Black River Militaria CII

Black River Militaria CII

    Industry Expert

  • Regular Group
  • 683 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 June 2018 - 03:29 PM

The T11 is a very unique LMG and is really in a catagory of its own. The feed from loaded strippers sets it apart from virtually every other LMG ever made except for the T89 pictured above, another Japanese LMG feeding from loaded strippers. The Russians experimentally adapted a hopper much like the T11 device to the DP28 in place of the pan magazines, but it was not putinto production.
The many extra steps involved in reloading the hopper doomed it to obsolescence very quickly or to relegation to defensive uses where it could be loaded again under cover. Even using the stripper chargers that were supplied with the gun in a box would not much improve its field reloading iin combat in my view.
One of the Italian Revelli LMGs used a rectangular box mag loaded with cartridges, and it was issued and used successfully in WWII, but the use of such cumbersome magazines was still very cumbersome and prone to jams.
There is alot of mechanical activity going on with the T11 hopper/shuttle style feed additional to the automatic firing cycle. It may be particular to the T11 I still have, but the others that Ived owned were also mechincally noisey when firing, but less so than my current exmaple. If ones ear is close to the stock or cheek bones in contact with it, the action of the gun seems to emit a lot of funny spring and metal impact noises as it goes through its firing cycle. I find this pretty amusing.
The grip around the odd stock shape is unique and feels strange and the stock is relatively short for me, but the gun sets up well for firing. The bipod leaves a lot to be desired, but the light weight of the gun allows it to be pushed around on the bipod easily.
There are pics of these guns mounted on special cradles on motorcycle sidecars for some type of official use by Japanese officers, which seems about right for the gun given its quite inefficient characteristics. Sure looks menacing.....

Edited by Black River Militaria CII, 12 June 2018 - 03:33 PM.

  • 0

#16 michaelkih

michaelkih

    RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 645 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 June 2018 - 04:22 PM

The T11 is a very unique LMG and is really in a catagory of its own. The feed from loaded strippers sets it apart from virtually every other LMG ever made except for the T89 pictured above, another Japanese LMG feeding from loaded strippers. The Russians experimentally adapted a hopper much like the T11 device to the DP28 in place of the pan magazines, but it was not putinto production.
The many extra steps involved in reloading the hopper doomed it to obsolescence very quickly or to relegation to defensive uses where it could be loaded again under cover. Even using the stripper chargers that were supplied with the gun in a box would not much improve its field reloading iin combat in my view.
One of the Italian Revelli LMGs used a rectangular box mag loaded with cartridges, and it was issued and used successfully in WWII, but the use of such cumbersome magazines was still very cumbersome and prone to jams.
There is alot of mechanical activity going on with the T11 hopper/shuttle style feed additional to the automatic firing cycle. It may be particular to the T11 I still have, but the others that Ived owned were also mechincally noisey when firing, but less so than my current exmaple. If ones ear is close to the stock or cheek bones in contact with it, the action of the gun seems to emit a lot of funny spring and metal impact noises as it goes through its firing cycle. I find this pretty amusing.
The grip around the odd stock shape is unique and feels strange and the stock is relatively short for me, but the gun sets up well for firing. The bipod leaves a lot to be desired, but the light weight of the gun allows it to be pushed around on the bipod easily.
There are pics of these guns mounted on special cradles on motorcycle sidecars for some type of official use by Japanese officers, which seems about right for the gun given its quite inefficient characteristics. Sure looks menacing.....

 

Very cool.  I'm looking forward to shooting it even more now.


  • 0

#17 StooperZero

StooperZero

    Regular Member

  • Board Donor
  • 635 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:US, BFE, PA
  • Interests:WW2 LMG/GPMG.

Posted 12 June 2018 - 04:31 PM

Wow, I don't remember seeing one of the pie-shaped magazines before.  Thanks for posting the photos and background.

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

 

 

Yep first time here too. 


  • 0

#18 Adg105200

Adg105200

    Regular Member

  • Board Donor
  • 683 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eastern USA
  • Interests:Ww2, Thompsons & many other guns, hunting, fishing, tools, woodworking

Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:52 PM

First time I've seen most of this stuff. Curious to see what else people have hidden in their collections.

Need to get some videos next whenever you get a chance to shoot it.

Andrew
  • 0

#19 Robert Henley

Robert Henley

    Long Time RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 801 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:NRA Life Benefactor
    Unified Sportsmen of Florida

Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:01 PM

Mike,

 

What's the history with your Type 11, if the former owner knew?  How did it get to the US, and when was it registered?

 

Robert


  • 0

#20 michaelkih

michaelkih

    RKI Member

  • Regular Group
  • 645 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:01 PM

Robert,

All I know is that Curtis Earl owned it at one point, as well as a museum. I'll do an information request with the ATF, and see if that brings up anything cool or any specific dates.
  • 0