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1928 Overstamp Actuator


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The earlier serial numbered 1928 overstamps had two piece riveted actuators. Later serial numbered guns had solid milled actuators. Both of my overstamps have two piece riveted actuators. Serial numbers on mine range in the 6000 to 8000 range. I'm not sure of the serial date range when Colt switched to solid milled actuators. Hope this helps.

 

Darren

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IIRC, the earlier converted 21/28 Navys had a two piece, riveted together actuator. Later converted ones, such as the one I used to own, had a single piece heavy actuator. I don't recall reading when AO made the changeover. IIC also, there is an AO drawing of the one piece heavy actuator. Others can probably provide more info.

 

I'm guessing that you're looking at a proper, later actuator.

 

MHO, YMMV, etc.

 

ETA: In response to Darren's comment I will add that a serial number range may or may not matter. AO did not necessarily sell guns in serial number order; and a number of 21s were sent back to AO for conversion to the 28 Navy configuration, possibly a number of years after purchase, as was the 28 Navy I used to own.

Edited by Merry Ploughboy
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​Early 28N's had the two piece, later one piece. Look it over for a mfg stamp.

​Since the one piece drawing is dated Jan 19th 1935, would assume guns converted or delivered after that date would be a factory 1 piece.

Edited by Bob
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Hi Dan,

There are actually 3 different Colt's era 1928 NAVY actuators. The early and late serial number ranges are not really definitive for when each type was used. Send me a picture of the cocking ball from the front and back and from the side and I will let you know.

 

tkd5501@fuse.net

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Hi Dan,

There are actually 3 different Colt's era 1928 NAVY actuators. The early and late serial number ranges are not really definitive for when each type was used. Send me a picture of the cocking ball from the front and back and from the side and I will let you know.

 

tkd5501@fuse.net

TD beat me to the response. He has done some interesting research on this very topic. Serial numbers would not be as important as the year the gun was ordered and shipped.

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Dan, I did a comparison post on this very topic about 6 or 7 months ago. The Y is legit subcontractor for the heavy actuator, You can also tell by the knurling. Very distinctive from WWII knurling. I'll see if I can find that thread. Concur, that some of those photos be added to a pinned COLT TSMG ID section.

 

Cheers

Steve

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http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21889&hl=%2Bcolt+%2Bone+%2Bpiece+%2Bactuator&do=findComment&comment=192200

 

Link to a Y actuator

 

Better photos with more comparisons on an earlier post, this is the one I was referring to.

 

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21361&page=2&hl=%2Bcolt+%2Bone+%2Bpiece+%2Bactuator&do=findComment&comment=186074

 

David is welcome to use any of these photos, if they are good enough to use as reference material.

 

S/Fi,

Steve

Edited by Sandman1957
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All,

 

When TD see this post he will weigh-in on it and provide more details.

 

Deerslayer: Your Y marked actuator is the last type of Colt era actuator made. The interior of the ball has the straight side cuts for similar to all the WWII style 1928 actuators The 1921 style actuator looks like a Colt actuator but doesn't have the "teardrop" shape for the inside area of the ball. See the front view picture of Gary Keim's two-piece actuator to see what I am referring to. The actuator looks like it may have been a cut-down WWII actuator, maybe a Remington?

 

GaryKeim: Your actuator is the first-type two-piece actuator fashioned from the original 1921 actuator with an added piece riveted and welded on. These are probably the most prevalent type but are somewhat fragile.

 

The second type actuator is similar to the one marked with the Y, except it has the "teardrop" shape cut on the ball and no manufacturing markings. These might be the hardest type to find. Unfortunately, we saw one break an ear off at the TATA Show last weekend, The owner of the gun, a 1928 Navy Model, was unaware he was shooting it with a very hard to find actuator.

 

I'm sure Tom will provide more details.

Edited by gijive
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An excellent subject and great thread. Sandman is right on point and has posted about this subject in the past. I am certainly late to the game but agree the "Y" marked actuator that Dan is inquiring about is definitely a Colt's era actuator. While my research is not complete, I believe it is the last of the Colt's era 1928 NAVY actuators. The two-piece NAVY actuator GaryKeim posted pictures of (thank you) is the most known and most sought after. However, it is just the first of three. There is a second NAVY actuator which appears to be designed exactly like the one-piece Colt's era NAVY actuator - but no rivets! Alas, one was damaged at the All Thompson Show & Shoot by an owner not realizing it was a Colt's era actuator. The third NAVY actuator, pictured by Dan, is completely different but easy to identify because of the "Y" marking.

 

What really got my interest in this thread is the 1921 style actuator Dan used as a comparison piece. I do not believe it is an original 1921 Colt's actuator. If so, it is definitely a new one to me. I also do not believe it is a cut down GI actuator that many of us run in our Thompsons. My 21 style actuators are GI actuators cut down by PK. Of course, he is not the only person that has done this type of modification. I think it very possible the 21 style actuator that Dan posted pictures of, above, may be a cut down Colt's era "Y" marked actuator. I have heard Thompson enthusiasts refer to these "Y" marked actuators as GI actuators in the past, long before I became interested in this subject. I would really like to examine the actuator in-person before offering a more definitive opinion. It could also possibly be a reproduction, but definitely not a Richardson reproduction. All that said, gijive's thoughts about it being a cut-down GI Remington actuator also deserves to be explored further. The unknowns are what make the Thompson world so interesting.

 

Dan, what can you tell us about the 21 style actuator? I like it!

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An excellent subject and great thread. Sandman is right on point and has posted about this subject in the past. I am certainly late to the game but agree the "Y" marked actuator that Dan is inquiring about is definitely a Colt's era actuator. While my research is not complete, I believe it is the last of the Colt's era 1928 NAVY actuators. The two-piece NAVY actuator GaryKeim posted pictures of (thank you) is the most known and most sought after. However, it is just the first of three. There is a second NAVY actuator which appears to be designed exactly like the one-piece Colt's era NAVY actuator - but no rivets! Alas, one was damaged at the All Thompson Show & Shoot by an owner not realizing it was a Colt's era actuator. The third NAVY actuator, pictured by Dan, is completely different but easy to identify because of the "Y" marking.

 

What really got my interest in this thread is the 1921 style actuator Dan used as a comparison piece. I do not believe it is an original 1921 Colt's actuator. If so, it is definitely a new one to me. I also do not believe it is a cut down GI actuator that many of us run in our Thompsons. My 21 style actuators are GI actuators cut down by PK. Of course, he is not the only person that has done this type of modification. I think it very possible the 21 style actuator that Dan posted pictures of, above, may be a cut down Colt's era "Y" marked actuator. I have heard Thompson enthusiasts refer to these "Y" marked actuators as GI actuators in the past, long before I became interested in this subject. I would really like to examine the actuator in-person before offering a more definitive opinion. It could also possibly be a reproduction, but definitely not a Richardson reproduction. All that said, gijive's thoughts about it being a cut-down GI Remington actuator also deserves to be explored further. The unknowns are what make the Thompson world so interesting.

 

Dan, what can you tell us about the 21 style actuator? I like it!

Tom,

 

Glad you posted on this topic. I am also intrigued by the 1921 style actuator shown in Deerslayer's post. Notice that the bottom of the ball is thinner at the base, under the checkering than the one-piece actuator on top. The checkering doesn't appear exactly the same to me either. I am not sure what it is.

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All,

 

I think I may have solved the mystery. I dug out my 1921 style actuator that was purchased several years ago from a guy in Sweden that was selling them on Ebay. They are not Colt actuators but are well-machined copies of the original Colt actuators. The one I picture and the others I have seen like it have the "cove" cut-out for the hammer, like the earliest 1921 Colt actuators. Notice in the pictures with the 1928 Navy Two-Piece actuator that the base of the knob is thinner and the checkering stops at the same place it does on the actuator shown by Dan. The only differences with Dan's are the fact that the one he pictured has no "cove" and the area between the cocking ball ears doesn't appear "teardrop" shaped. There was a lot of discussion about these actuators on the Board many years ago and the speculation was that they may have been made by BSA prior to or during WWII for some reason.

 

Dan, can you see any markings indicating a Broad Arrow stamp?

 

1928 Navy-1921 Broad Arrow Mark.jpg

 

1928 Colt Two-Piece Actuator - Top 1921 Broad Arrow Marked Actuator - Bottom

 

1921 Broad Arrow Mark.jpg

 

Broad Arrow Mark

 

1921 Actuator-Broad Arrow Stamp.jpg

 

1921 Actuator - Front

 

1928 Navy Two-Piece Actuator-Repaired Right Ear.jpg

 

1928 Two-Piece Actuator with Repaired Right Ear

Edited by gijive
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