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How many USGI M3A1 Grease Guns are on the registry?


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In my estimation from many years following the markets on a wide variety of transferable MGs, the number of fully transferable Ithaca grease guns in the NFRTR is very, very small. Obtaining numbers of specific models of grease guns is impossible at this point in time, but it is clear to me that there are many more pre-May samples of Ithacas than transferables. The overwhelming majority of grease guns are Guide Lamp guns. Ithaca manufactured comparatively few grease guns.

I don't count the Medea repro grease guns as part of this issue.

Very slowly ATF/NFA is working at cataloging the numbers of specific models of different types of MGs in the NFRTR but there are major hurdles to this endeavor due to the way that MG ID and serial registration information was handled since 1934. Many longtime collectors, dealers, etc have fairly accurate compilations of the numbers of some vintage MGs in the NFRTR. The numbers and types of pre-'68 MGs In the NFRTR are the most difficult to filter out.

The importation of M3/M3A1s post-WWII by GIs as well as importation prior to and during the DEWAT retail burst in the mid 1950s was considerable and many of these wound up being registered before or during the '68 Amnesty. That was just good luck.

Others might have some ideas about this as well.FWIW

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why would a dewat have the back end cut off?

 

is guild lamp still on the form 4 as the maker? or is the guy who welded it now the maker?

 

just wondering if its considered a rewat or a reweld/remanufacturer???

 

i saw the price and heard from another interested party about the rewelded part...rewats often sell for close to full price and for ruben that gun was -$7,000....made me think its has more of a story to tell....im sure it will work great and the price is a bargain to get into a m3.....i was eyeing it up myself

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Rear receiver on M3 a1 is quite common to be stretched out due to extensive use. The rear recoil plate is just a small bar compared to M3 where the plate is a round disc same size as rear of receiver. Much better support. Rear plate was changed so upon disassembly you did not have to pull trigger guard and the ejector housing. Always look at rear receiver of a1’s for sale about half of them show stretch.

Remember when these guns were developed they were considered throw a ways due to cheap cost.

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06-600x400.jpg

This is the one you bought??? I must admit Im jealous if you did. That is a beautiful battle field modification gun. An M3 modified to use cocking handle in the bolt. Set up in a similar fashion as the STEN

 

No, was just having fun with folks. That is a beauty though, love the GI modification. I bet it was an enlisted man that came up with that idea!!!

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that weld can be made invisible...my local smith showed me a sample he did that looked like Frankenstein inside, but outside was 100% flawless. he tweaked my rewelded mp40 and made the internal welds disappear....so there is no need to accept the weld marks as is if you dont want to.

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Did you buy this gun? Ruben relisted it yesterday on sturm

 

I assume its not sold. Ive bought a gun from him . shipping to my dealer and its still on his website. But I assume if its sold he wouldnt repost it on sturm??

Edited by huggytree
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Did you buy this gun? Ruben relisted it yesterday on sturm

 

I assume its not sold. Ive bought a gun from him . shipping to my dealer and its still on his website. But I assume if its sold he wouldnt repost it on sturm??

Yes, I purchased it, and very happy and excited about it. I had a Medea M3A1 in the past but sold it, and really missed not having a grease gun. I was a 19E in the Army National Guard prior to going Regular Army and was assigned a M3A1.

Edited by NFA amnesty
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i think its a fair price....

 

a rare gun...id have it tweaked since its refinished anyways...$1k and it would be a beauty queen....and no one would know unless they looked down the inside of the tube....my mp40 welds are flawless...the finish will most likely be cerakote to match....but it might be already anyways

 

congrats....if i had the spare $ id consider it

 

maker on the form 4 is guide lamp? (hope you checked)

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I read that they did not make spare parts when they first shipped out M3 grease guns as it was considered a throw away weapon. Unfortunately the bolt retracting handle would break off because the metal was not hardened. There was a shortage of grease guns and demand outpaced supply so a fix was needed to keep them in the field. I believe the M3 above was an attempt to keep the weapon in the field and still function. Not sure if that was sanctioned Army wide, division, brigade, battalion, company level, or one of a kind, but folks were resourceful back then and came up with some ingenious methods to keep equipment running. Here is something I just found doing a quick search:

 

"The solution was straightforward and simple: ordnance company personnel started by removing what was left of the retracting handle assembly from each damaged weapon, then used an end mill to cut a seven-inch long slot into the right hand side of the receiver at the 2 o’clock position running from just behind the weapon’s ejection port. This accommodated a crudely hewn steel bolt handle that inserted through an enlarged opening at the forward end of the slot and entered a hole drilled into the back end of the bolt assembly. It was not a pretty repair, but it worked.

A few archival photographs of men from General George Patton’s Third Army taken around the time of the Battle of the Bulge show Grease Guns repaired in this manner. In addition to that, the collection of Musée National d'Histoire Militaire (the National Military History Museum) in Diekirch, Luxembourg has in its collection five M3s that have received this field modification. Considering the fact that the Third Army operated in Luxembourg during and after the Battle of the Bulge, it looks like this field modification may have been confined to the ranks of that specific unit. Interestingly, a product improvement was already in development back in the USA that would make this design shortcoming superfluous."

Edited by NFA amnesty
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There are several photographs of this type of modification being fielded in Europe during WWII. There were a couple different ways it was done but this is the most common. A thread here on the board showed a gun found in Italy I believe, that had a similar type of modification but a little less refined.
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If you could come up with a milling machine, a lathe, etc. and assortment of end mills in the field, you could likely weld up broken cocking handle. I'd guess someone in allied forces had a better idea (probably British) and made it into a .45 cal sten. Of course there would be copies done here in the states in the 60's and 70's when the guns were nearly worthless. Buy the gun, not the story. Personally for me the gun would suffer a large deduct in price even though it's a great functional add to the obvious weak spot in the gun. The retracting handle is another classic example of why the US was always behind in small arms development and why German guns were always ahead and highly sought after.

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During WWII GI’s had rolling machine shops on wheels using the 2 ton trucks. Ordnance people repaired all kinds of weapons. Rifles,

Machine guns , subguns, mortars , bazookas etc. They could weld , machine , or modify any weapons as needed.

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You can find those modified grease guns in France Belgium and Luxembourg. Those were most probably modified in England before dropped to European resistance groups because the cocking mechanism was to prone to breakage.

 

I have three friends, inn France Belgium and Luxembourg who own this type of grease guns, all came from the resistance

 

Here is a picture showing two French resistance members holding that type of grease guns

Capture d’écran 2018-12-15 à 10.01.55.png

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