TEXAS MGC Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkel Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Interesting 1911 curved magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTRS-14.5 Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 I like the suppressed 03 colt...PTRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Interesting stuff and the Connecticut plates throw me. Yes, the suppressed Colt is very odd. The Lebman colt mini, is in the Swearengen book I believe, also on the cover of the SAR article by Ramos. odd grouping- lot of suppressors. ? Any ideas on what it's about, Bart ? ( I assume coming from you a Kelly tie-in ? ) thanks for posting never seen this one. OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEXAS MGC Posted August 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Actually, this one has no ties to Kelly. I bought this one primarily due to the unique guns, especially the 1911 which I've never seen before. I was wondering if it was connected to San Antonio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Pretty interesting find. The Lebman conversion throws me , with the story. Think I'll toss this one to the master, Bill Helmer. ( or you should )A Lebman Colt mini, showing up in New York, in 1934 ? Maybe Hans has found this ?? Need/like to find out. Good find- Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEXAS MGC Posted August 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 I agree. Would really like to know. Was Lebman into silencers too? I'll have to do some research on the Prudential Savings Bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANS Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Superb photo, many thanks for sharing! This might clear up one of the riddles in my Lebman article. Cheers HANS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Talked to Bill this morning about the photo, got a Huuhhh ? Also have an email to friend & author Ellen Poulsen in Brooklyn ( Don't Call Us Molls, Lucky Luciano, etc ) about this gang, see what we can turn up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANS Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 Here's what I found out so far: it's the arsenal of a large (10+) gang led by Herbert Miller. Most lived in New York. They pulled at least four big bank scores in 1934 (May to November) until they were caught on 23-NOV-1934. Four of them were down in Miami at the time, where they were nabbed simultaneously. The gang is not mentioned in Helmer/Mattix's PUBLIC ENEMY ALMANAC. Apparently they managed to stay out of the headlines for a long time. This is not the first Lebman conversion I've seen out of NYC. Another big gang, taken down in 1935, had a Lebman Carbine with all the fittings. The connection, most likely, was Eddie Bentz, who stayed in NYC for longer periods at several points throughout the 1930s. Bentz knew of Lebman, having sent Gillis (Nelson) down to Lebman in 1933. Cheers HANS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 We're working the same angle- Helmer found the article and had Xeroxed it to the late Rick Mattix.The Nelson/Bentz/Lebman connection.Maybe as far as it goes, we'll see. Thanks again to Bart ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEXAS MGC Posted August 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 OCMWell I initially told you that this photo had no KELLY connection. But Edward Bentz, at one time, was a close associate of Kelly and Bates. Even helping Kelly with his biggest bank job at Colfax. I did not realize that Bentz and Lebman were closely connected (thanks Hans). I wonder what happened to all of Rick's research after his death. I believe Ellen and Rick were fairly close, perhaps she knows. What a great researcher Rick was. Anyway, thanks to everyone for the research on this photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) Bart-Do a Google research on Eddie Bentz, opens up all of this- Alcatraz etc. Everything. What a thug.Rick's wife Linda, who both were out here when Rick & I did a Lloyd Barker grave hunt, had his files after his death. She didn't know what to do with them . About the same situation as Helmer & I are in, but I have way less then Rick did. ( way less ) . I don't know what she did, but massive files.She had called me about this. I had no idea what to do. Donate to the library as the Barrows did or what maybe will happen to the Dillinger files ( another story) .Eddie Bentz and Marie Barrow, separately, have an extremely interesting story to tell. Here is a fun picture of Rick I took with the Dillinger Essex and a couple of Thompsons.......... OCM Edited August 4, 2016 by OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrylta Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Man, what a sweet car!Thanks,Darryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEXAS MGC Posted August 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Awesome photo. I can tell both of you had a great time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 We did have fun- We drove to Broomfield , Colorado and found Lloyd Barker's unmarked grave. The cemetery staff had no idea he was buried there, Rick did ! We got lucky, they had the old cemetery register book, with his name and plot number, even went out with us to find it. Got a picture I took of Rick with a Thompson and the money bag the gang used at the 1933 Racine robbery, found in the trunk of Pierpont's 1934 Buick in Tucson. Still had Racine wrapped money in it- Busted . Had this type stuff in my collection that Rick & I played with all day. Great fun, good guy. I think last time I was to hook up with Rick was in Dexter, Iowa on a Bonnie & Clyde research project we were doing, but a tornado hit his house over in Bussey, Iowa and he couldn't make it, still fun project, but would of been excellent with him & Linda. One of those things- OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostsoldier Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Man, Sandy...you've had a full and interesting life so far, my friend. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_brock Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Man, Sandy...you've had a full and interesting life so far, my friend. RobMaybe Sandy is "the most interesting man in the world" in a witness protection program 😀 Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCM Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) HaaaaaaHaaaaaaaaaa, no, just a hobby that got out of control chasing dead outlaws. Biggest reward was all the cool friends I've met thru the years. As Darryl says, let the cat out of the bag, I'm Bill Helmer incognito. I enjoy sharing this stuff with people, that takes an interest in it, all dozen of us. Back to the subject, where did the Lebman gun in Bart's photo come from. Still an open book. " stay thirsty my friends, lay down on the floor and stay calm " OCM Edited August 4, 2016 by OCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostsoldier Posted August 5, 2016 Report Share Posted August 5, 2016 Man, Sandy...you've had a full and interesting life so far, my friend. RobMaybe Sandy is "the most interesting man in the world" in a witness protection program Ron Lol...I wouldn't be surprised. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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