44 replies to this topic

[colt21a]

happy happy i did not want this to degrade to a mudd slingin freak-fest.........


and who coined that term again "Thompson Greed"???

wink!! have fun folk's...........its all in the game.............ron

[John Jr]

What did you do with the reciever Jim?

Jr

[1921A]

Bob:

ATF has transferred F10 guns for repair in the past. I transferred one from Orlando Police Dept on a Form 5. NFA branch simply requested that it be marked "For repair and return." Have they changed their position on this? Has anyone tried it recently?

Greg Fox

[Bob]

Yes, new directive from ATFE. Jim tried to get it shipped on letterhead and/or F5 for destruction and his LE examiner said no way.

He is waiting for the cut instructions, the receiver (whats left of) is going with the parts kit.

Oh, and for those that say museums can't sell or trade...I know that's not true first hand.

[full auto 45]

I wonder if the reciever coud be registered in the new amnesty coming up? Would be a major waste if they cut it up and then find out it could have been registered. We all would lose on that one. Maybe they could sell all but the reciever and keep it until the amnesty thing comes about?

[Fencer]

QUOTE

Oh, and for those that say museums can't sell or trade...I know that's not true first hand.

Well, I don't know what museum you are refering too, but any accredited, professional and law abiding museum
would not do so. That is a prosecutable crime. Any removal from the collection must be disposed of through
public auction/sale. Museums have gotten in trouble before for deaccessioning items to board members.
State attourney generals would be very interested in any museum that violated the public trust and the law
by trading portions of their collection to private individuals.

Now if we are talking about "Bob's Beanie Bear Museum" on RR#1, that is probally not accredited and not
subject to the same laws. But likewise that "museum" would not be eligable to take the transfer of a
Colt 1921 Thompson.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Mike,
Is this skuttlebutt about another amnesty. or is this an actual plan by ATF with an agreed upon date?

[Fencer]

Sorry, don't have a rules and regulations book here in front of me. This information is from
someone who has a master's degree in museum science, is a professional at a nationally known
museum and is in charge of the collection. I trust her for a couple of reasons, the least bit
being she has not killed me after 10 years of marriage.

Museums cannot just look in their collections and give away what is there. There is a complicated
series of actions that must occur before they can remove something from collections. Now, this may
be Indiana only, but I doubt it.

In Indiana a private non-for-profit museum cannot do anything but sell the item at public auction.
Now, a museum with governmental ties may have more options, after all they make the rules. I do know
that the Air Force Museum in Dayton Ohio was recently involved in a major scandal over this very
thing, improper disposal of collection items. The curator, I believe, was selling items over Ebay
and to certain dealers, not following procedures. Now that I mention it, I believe he was "trading"
certain items to a specific dealer, in the southern US. That was also part of the problem. Workers
at the museum were finding bunches of items in the trash dumpster out back of the museum. It was
one of these guys who went to the proper authorities to stop it. Some 20mm and 30mm German
aircraft weapons, circa WW2, were found in the dumpster. Some ended up in private hands fully functional.
Great news if you have a FW-190A or D9 in the hangar. Bad news for those that own P-51 Mustangs.

I don't want to start a big argument for a couple reasons.
First of all I hate it when that happens on this board.

Secondly I may not be entirely correct!

Last, if I am right, I don't want to get anyone in any type of trouble.

[Bob]

Arthur,
I think the amnesty mentioned is the one Eric Larson has been involved with. It is requesting another amnesty for war bring-backs that were not registered during the 68 amnesty. I applies to private registration only, not stuff that has been surrendered as contraband. That's my understanding of the process and it has not been approved as of yet. You might want to contact Eric directly, he is a real warrior on NFA issues. BR Bob

[TD.]

As I read back over the posts on this message string it became obvious that only a miracle would have saved this one Colt Thompson. I am a little confused on how it is better to destroy a historical artifact at a local muffler shop rather than pursue export to a foreign country where at a minimum the receiver could be put to use, appreciated and enjoyed by others. But that is just me; I am sure I am not seeing the big picture in all of this. It is unfortunate many legally procured Colt Thomspons are registered on Form 10’s and unable to be transferred to civilians. Perhaps this will change before all of these Form 10’s go to that big muffler shop.

However, we have learned a lot from this experience. We have learned from TMAN that it may be possible to export a Form 10 firearm by a person licensed by the Department of State as an Exporter under the Arms Export Control Act. It appears HARDREDE fits this description – and he agreed to be an exporter in a case like this for free. Thanks HARDREDE. I am sure I speak for everyone in thanking TMAN for his research on this subject. It appears TMAN was going to make a few more calls to finalize if this in fact could be done. I would encourage him to start a new string with the results of his research. If this can be legally done, I would think a few Form 10 Thompsons may be saved -especially with TMAN and HARDREDE’s help.

Of course, if this were possible, someone would have to be a willing and legally acceptable recipient of the gun or receiver. ARTHUR and PHILOHIO, I too could envision a possible foreign market for the complete guns (or just the stripped receivers). Perhaps some of our board members that live outside the United States could let us know if a machine gun export to their particular country is possible – and if they would be interested. I suspect Murray may respond on this question for New Zealand.

FENCER provided some interesting information on museums – another venue for Form 10 guns. Unfortunately, donation is the key word here. As a side note, I understand the NRA National Firearms Museum does not have a real Thompson in inventory. Perhaps some local police chief would like to make a donation of a Form 10 Thompson along with a department patch for display. FENCER volunteered to help anyone wanting to make a donation to a museum. Thanks FENCER.

JOHN, Jr. started this well read string and asked an excellent question at the end. Unfortunately, we all know what happened to this receiver. However, it would be appreciated by all of us that count these original 15,000 Colt production Thompsons one by one to know the serial number of this deceased Thompson. JIM (or BOB), would you be so kind as to let all of us know the number of the receiver that was trashed so those of us who strive to preserve these historical artifacts may pay homage to that one old Colt Thompson.
Thanks,

[Chopper28]

Is this gun listed in Gordan's book? It is serial # 7355

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Nope...I am compiling a list of unreported numbers in Herigstad's book to send to him.

[Chopper28]

You can see pics of it at www.beltfed.com if it is still there.

[full auto 45]

Saw this morning, the gun is sold pending funds. If they would only take it apart and hang onto the reciever to sell to another country or if that bill passes, maybe it could be worked in. Just ashamed that this guy is eager to take it to a muffler shop.

[colt21a]

if they take it to a midas shop will they call it the "midas thompson"and ask $25,000.00 for the piece's????


you can never underestimate.........the thompson thing....


ron

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

Ron,
You are on the right track. The reason Curtis Earl called his cathouse TSMG "Midas" was because of the built in "shocks" it caused potential buyers.

[giantpanda4]

Something that comes to mind as obvious to me... why hasn't anyone mentioned the owner donating to a museum... intact, for the tax write off? Seems the Tax write off (say the owner is in the 30% bracket) would be damn near what he got for the parts, assuming he valued the gun at $20K (Arthur, and JC Devine would ...).

Maybe someone smarter than me can point out the flaw in this...???

[colt21a]

QUOTE (giantpanda4 @ Feb 29 2004, 08:04 AM)

Something that comes to mind as obvious to me... why hasn't anyone mentioned the owner donating to a museum... intact, for the tax write off? Seems the Tax write off (say the owner is in the 30% bracket) would be damn near what he got for the parts, assuming he valued the gun at $20K (Arthur, and JC Devine would ...). Maybe someone smarter than me can point out the flaw in this...???

come on panda have you not heard of "Thompson Greed"??


if the world was all touchy feelee for these great colt's..we would hear a different story..............now to alot of people they are just like a stock,oil price's gas........or something to trade off for hard cash, gold, silver...........

and for the most part they give a rat's arse on the turnout...........put it in a museum.wha!!! to let other's enjoy...................you must be kidding right????when they can get that thompson greed.........


and years ago these p'd's used to tell me >what!! that thing in the armory............just some old junk gun,we not even sure if sheeees shoot's............

well thats just me............i liked the history on them anyhow............

maybe they will sell the chopped receiver in parts and sell by the ounce on e-blahhhh!!!!

that will be the next thing...........oh darn i am getting all emotional........over a colt again,wink!!

take care,ron

[SecondAmend]

From the subguns NFA discussion forum:

In Response To: Re: Question about an ad on the NFA board? (m60mgman)

Posted By: Jim
Date: 2/29/04 11:59 good news, the ol' Colt won't be chopped after all. It is a form 10 gun. Turns out the guy I sold it to is a cop and we're going to transfer the complete weapon to his department on a form 5.


And they lived happily ever after.

The End.

[Bob]

Jim did get a solid transfer on this one, so it did get a reprieve for now. He also got news of another hole when the next F10 gun turns up.

So we can have two saved, anyone else have department that would be interested? Good thing to work on when you get your next CLEO.