Some exceptional TSMGs coming up at Morphy's on November 18

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

The Savage U.S. Model of 1928 A1 is a complete World War II Thompson submachine gun that was most likely imported into the USA in the 1960s, acquired and sold by Numrich Arms at some point in time, hence the NAC serial number suffix.

 

Imported by INTERARMCO? If this Savage was imported by a U.S. licensed importer of firearms, not Numrich, the "N.A.C." has nothing to do with legal requirements as the regulation of marking imported firearms with the importers mark was not required until 1968. Numrich intended his company initials to become inseparable from the official BATFE serial number.

[lightguy]

 

 

Always best from any buyer ask seller how many he has owned, fired. and seen in lifetime, if less then a 100 go back to square one

Any good Tommy guy should have looked at around a 1,000 or so maybe more.i Like when you come across guys "The best i have seen." and they had one or two and have seen around 20 or 30....It all takes time lots of time Decades.RON K.

So sorry.

Of course you are the expert.

You must have seen them all.

The gun mentioned in the OP is obviously a turd.

The "expert" at Morphys is obviously an idiot.

 

Moderators please delete the thread.

yeah i have owned a lot and seen thousands is that a Bad thing now?

That turd sold for $110,700.

Which is good news to me because mine is finer.

Of course the best ones that you have seen (or own ?) wouldn't even compare.

 

 

 

[TD.]

If I had to bet money, I would guess Interarmco/International Armament was the importer. Of course, it could also be Service Armament or even Numrich Arms for that matter. A Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request may provide the answer. It has never been clear why Numrich added the letters "NAC" as a serial number suffix to otherwise complete guns. That decision was made years ago by people no longer with us. It was not a legal requirement from what I can tell. The auction information says S-527235 NAC has a mismatched frame but then provides the same serial number for the frame (S-527235 NAC) but no picture. Go figure. A mismatched frame would definitely impact value. 18K out the door is not a bad price for a late Savage Thompson with a mismatched frame and NAC markings. I have seen West Hurley's sell for more. S-527235 NAC is a much better gun and investment in my opinion.

 

I do believe the letters NAC as a serial number suffix on an otherwise complete gun is a distraction and does impact, albeit slightly, the value.

[lightguy]

 

So is 5662 truly that rare in condition or was it a case of having to have it? What a price!

 

Many things in that auction are a case of "had to have it".

 

$52,000 for a Colt Thompson with a replaced barrel?

$110,000 for a nice condition Colt Thompson?

$24,600 for a Colt C drum?

$21,000 for a Group Industries Uzi?

$43,000 for a Sturmgewehr?

$40,000 for an M3?

$92,000 for an MG42?

 

This list of stupidity goes on and on with the auction today. And don't think I'm some butthurt person. I own every single one of these guns, but there is a difference between having money and being wasteful with money. I actually tried to bid on one item in the auction today. It went past what they normally sell for, but I was like "screw it. I'll bid a couple more times". Thought it would be neat to buy something from the big auction house. Then I was completely blown away as I watched it sell for about double what they typically go for. It was not even an amazing example of the particular item. LOL. Messaged a dealer friend of mine right after and he agreed to sell me his for what they normally sell for. I'll never waste my time with one of these auctions again. Decided to try it this once and it is retarded. So odd, when the auction house takes 20% from the Buyer and sometimes up to 15% from the Seller. I honestly just do not get it, but that's me.

Just "nice condition " ?

Unless Thompsons fall under some other universe than other guns the very best bring the very best prices. In orders of magnitude.

 

People will pay a premium to auction houses with reputation over individuals. Lets be honest.

I bought a shooter grade 1928A1 from Morphys so as not to shoot my others. The overall price was market. I wouldn't have bought it otherwise.

It came in with cracked stocks and a drum that didnt function.

After talking with John Keene their class 3 expert ( Of course not up to Colt1921a's standards ) they issued me a refund of $1000.

Try that with a retailer.

I have bought some amazing stuff for on auction for incredible prices (select fire Valmet M82 for @ $8K) IF you know what you are doing and dont go in with a "I HAVE to have that attitude".

"Know when to hold 'em...."

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by lightguy

[michaelkih]

 

 

So is 5662 truly that rare in condition or was it a case of having to have it? What a price!

 

Many things in that auction are a case of "had to have it".

 

$52,000 for a Colt Thompson with a replaced barrel?

$110,000 for a nice condition Colt Thompson?

$24,600 for a Colt C drum?

$21,000 for a Group Industries Uzi?

$43,000 for a Sturmgewehr?

$40,000 for an M3?

$92,000 for an MG42?

 

This list of stupidity goes on and on with the auction today. And don't think I'm some butthurt person. I own every single one of these guns, but there is a difference between having money and being wasteful with money. I actually tried to bid on one item in the auction today. It went past what they normally sell for, but I was like "screw it. I'll bid a couple more times". Thought it would be neat to buy something from the big auction house. Then I was completely blown away as I watched it sell for about double what they typically go for. It was not even an amazing example of the particular item. LOL. Messaged a dealer friend of mine right after and he agreed to sell me his for what they normally sell for. I'll never waste my time with one of these auctions again. Decided to try it this once and it is retarded. So odd, when the auction house takes 20% from the Buyer and sometimes up to 15% from the Seller. I honestly just do not get it, but that's me.

Just "nice condition " ?

Unless Thompsons fall under some other universe than other guns the very best bring the very best prices. In orders of magnitude.

 

People will pay a premium to auction houses with reputation over individuals. Lets be honest.

I bought a shooter grade 1928A1 from Morphys so as not to shoot my others. The overall price was market. I wouldn't have bought it otherwise.

It came in with cracked stocks and a drum that didnt function.

After talking with John Keene their class 3 expert ( Of course not up to Colt1921a's standards ) they issued me a refund of $1000.

Try that with a retailer.

I have bought some amazing stuff for on auction for incredible prices (select fire Valmet M82 for @ $8K) IF you know what you are doing and dont go in with a "I HAVE to have that attitude".

"Know when to hold 'em...."

 

 

The very best? But it's not. We have all seen others that nice and close, and for sale for not nearly $110k. And, $21k for a GI Uzi? LOL. $24,000 for a C drum? LOL. The list goes on and on of stupidity today. I'm not hear to argue, and people can do what they want with their money, and spend all they want at these auctions. Just saying that the prices today were laughable. Plus the whole 20% BS? And sales tax? and card fee? Jesus. Then possible Seller's premiums? I personally do not understand selling at these places and probably at buying at them too. I mean, it'd be one thing if it was some amazing 1 of 1 gun, or some rare one off art or something, but none of these guns are that rare really. Expensive? Yes. Rare? No. Some searching or a simple WTB ad will find you pretty much every one of these guns with little to no patience. That's why I just don't get it, but to each their own, and some people out there have to keep these auction houses alive I guess!

 

Since you have actually seen good deals before, that is good, so I will definitely still look, but I can't see myself personally every finding a good enough deal to actually buy from one of these places. I have personally yet to see a better price ever at a big auction house than what I have bought from individuals, dealers, and even big dealers. Just my experience.

[2t2]

I am not the smartest guy in this area, but what is going on?

 

Morphy's Auction "C" Drum No. 90 sold for $12,300 a few months ago and now one sells for over $20K?????

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/EXCEPTIONAL_ORIGINAL_MATCHING_NUMBERED_THOMPSON__C-LOT483628.aspx

 

Same auction a Colt Navy 1921/28 over stamp sells for $52,275 and a colt 21A goes for over 100 grand???

https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/_N__FABULOUS_CONDITION_COLT_U_S__NAVY_OVERSTAMP_19-LOT476693.aspx

 

wow?

[maxfaxdude]

Like many, I too was surprised at several of the really high final hammer prices at the Morphy Auction.

 

But why so high?

 

1) Rare and/or high condition item

2) Buyer ignorance

3) Buyer laziness

4) They REALLY wanted it

5) Got in a pissing contest with the another bidder(s)

6) Too much money

7) All of the above

[Roland the Thompsongunner]

Gun autions seem to always be all over the place on prices. They are really no different than standard auctions or ebay for that matter. All you need is two people to get fixated on something and the next thing they know they way over paid for an item. Next day one will sell for half. Seen it over and over at local autions at farms etc and people get into bidding wars and pay more for used items that they could buy cheaper new. Nuts

[johnsonlmg41]

Like many, I too was surprised at several of the really high final hammer prices at the Morphy Auction.

 

But why so high?

 

1) Rare and/or high condition item

2) Buyer ignorance

3) Buyer laziness

4) They REALLY wanted it

5) Got in a pissing contest with the another bidder(s)

6) Too much money

7) All of the above

 

I'm going to go with 2-5. Stuff was not that great of condition, nor particularly rare (of course that's relative). Not sure where the money is coming from, but there has been trillions artificially injected into the economy and I can personally vouch for one MG purchased early in the year with some of this funding. Of course while gov. was wasting it, I paid very low end of market pricing to stretch it as far as possible. There was one gun I felt I needed, but ended up not bidding because I could kind of see this coming by the pre-bid numbers. Maybe next time, the gravy train always ends at some point! The MG market seems to be following housing, stocks, and a number of other asset classes that have all dramatically risen, so I don't see it out of line. History has taught us they all tend to fall together as well. Rules for radicals would predict a drop is imminent.

[TSMGguy]

The Savage U.S. Model of 1928 A1 is a complete World War II Thompson submachine gun that was most likely imported into the USA in the 1960s, acquired and sold by Numrich Arms at some point in time, hence the NAC serial number suffix.

Right. I have one, 339xxx serial number. No British proofs, and no additional markings at all other than the NAC. Not being coy about the serial number here; I can't recall exactly what the serial number is.

[colt21a]

We are but a small percent of anything with these guns in the world market. We enjoy what we enjoy. And when Thompson guys get in some pissing contest about who has what and the best.{When some here get fifty years doing it speak up}

Like J.C. Roger, Dorchester Knight and Stoner and Sam said to me a few times.

 

The best comment to me was from Bob Landies {I was one of his B.A.R. Disb back in the early days 96/97/98

 

"Ron you are beyond help"

how did i take it a bad remark a kick in the nuts nope a compliment. for my grading of guns my honesty on deals and telling it like it was. When many did not want to hear. That is why Gordon asked me to help with his book when off the ground and he started it. And i got involved with Bill on the Capone project. Too much gets twisted today on the net.

 

Too bad Gordon was not around to ground everybody again. If in 2021 22 things in U.S. fall apart you can use the $20 grand drums and guns to go shop at the local store. Or set up the belt feed. to protect the home and property. Many in the world can trade in these guns like wood tokens since they wheel and deal in Jets, yachts, and $20 million buck mansions in multiples'

 

so us regular working guys can enjoy. I really think Earl was a decent guy in early years. he became bitter and bad later.{And yeah i had bouts with him 20 plus years later we okayed the feud..I still have his taped interview that was to go in SAR review magazine>

A guy always does not have to be out there as some big player. MANY do deals and enjoy a love for the history of it. Much of that has been forgotten in the last few years.

 

sadly a ton of the major players are gone today. RON K.

 

p.s. i figure many would like the pic of the Solothurn....

Edited November 19, 2020 by colt21a

[bmarvin]

I know several people that have made hundreds of thousands of dollars more this year than in previous years, especially in the stock and real estate markets. I'd guess they are spending found money on a toy they always wanted