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Navy 28 overstamp, need professional adivice/opinions


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#1 halftrack

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 06:32 PM

Unfortunately the effects of Katrina are still lingering in NOLA and this Colt is no exception. It was submerged in saltwater for a few days. It is one of the many Thompsons that belong to the Jacksons Barracks museum. It appears to be a 21 Navy Overstamp. Trigger housing obviously is not the correct one, however, I would bet the housing is on another Thompson in the collection. The colt has absolutely no finish left on it. What was a pristine example of a Thompson is no more. The museum would like to know whether or not value could be added to the weapon if professionally restored. Or leave as is. I am of the opinion it serves no historical value in the condition it is in but I am no expert and value the professionalism of this board. The weapon does function in all other aspects. I tried to take photos of the weapon where interest may be. No history is known on this serial number other than it may of belonged to Huey Longs guard detail...dont know if I believe that. All opions, advice, and history is welcome.

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#2 M17ap

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 06:57 PM

In its present condition I would recommend a professional restoration. There are several guys that do this and good ones can make it look like original. Dont know who to recommend but I’m sure some other posters do. Original Colt deserves better than what it looks like now. Also locate that original lower and replace that GI lower. Good luck !
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#3 The1930sRust

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 07:12 PM

PK.


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#4 villafuego

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 07:16 PM

If it's a museum gun, that will never again be in private hands, I'd perform enough conservation to prevent additional degradation.

 

Katrina is part of NOLA history.....and this gun survived it (albeit worse for the wear)......and history is the purpose of museums.

 

Without knowing how it is papered, what the museums intentions are, and what they payed (if anything ) for it, it's kind of a tough question to answer


Edited by villafuego, 30 January 2019 - 07:23 PM.

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#5 firearm

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 07:24 PM

Craig Jordon (if still around) did some of the best restoration I have ever seen.  Expensive even back then.  I think it cost me $3200 back 15 years ago but well worth it.


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#6 halftrack

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 07:35 PM

If it's a museum gun, that will never again be in private hands, I'd perform enough conservation to prevent additional degradation.
 
Katrina is part of NOLA history.....and this gun survived it (albeit worse for the wear)......and history is the purpose of museums.
 
Without knowing how it is papered, what the museums intentions are, and what they payed (if anything ) for it, it's kind of a tough question to answer


Good points and I can see it from that angle......if it was a Katrina museum. The intention of the museum is to preserve military history, educating the public while bringing value to its collection. But I do understand Katrina is now part of its history.
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#7 ron_brock

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 07:49 PM

Listed in Gordons book as Louisiana National Guard NOLA 1 of 12 (1 of 10 shipped 9/11/35). Louisiana State Police Baton Rouge.

At this point Id say prevent any further decay and the Hurricane is part of its history. A good treatment of Renaissance Wax would be helpful for longer term metal protection. Many antiques were ruined in the hurricane, some were treated with Renaissance and faired better.

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#8 Barry

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 08:01 PM

That museum was very interesting Lots of Louisiana history of the national guard. Large displays outside and in plus a very large collection of small arms from many eras
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#9 halftrack

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 08:18 PM

Listed in Gordons book as Louisiana National Guard NOLA 1 of 12 (1 of 10 shipped 9/11/35). Louisiana State Police Baton Rouge.

At this point Id say prevent any further decay and the Hurricane is part of its history. A good treatment of Renaissance Wax would be helpful for longer term metal protection. Many antiques were ruined in the hurricane, some were treated with Renaissance and faired better.

Ron

Ron .....that is awesome news. It was said about a dozen of them was found in crates long time ago by accident at the barracks. Might be true then about being used to protect Huey Long. However , Huey Long died on 9/10/35. Weird.

Edited by halftrack, 30 January 2019 - 08:21 PM.

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#10 reconbob

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 09:25 PM

Everyone has an opinion on this. If this gun was restored it would have to be refinished
and re-engraved at which time it would be a caricature of an original, not original. The
hurricane damage is part of its history. I know it's not sexy, but there it is.
Think about it this way - if a gun in similar condition was documented to have been
found on the beach at Tarawa or Omaha, I would think most people would think that
buffing it up and re-engraving would adversely affect its historical significance.
You would not spray paint Richard Tregaskis' helmet because it is rusty, or at least
I hope not.

Bob
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#11 Haenelistklasse

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 09:26 PM

Well, after reading all the expert opinions, I think I have changed my mind. I was going to say refinish the gun because you are not doing justice to that magnificent piece of history but isn't Hurricane Katrina part of the history now? Is there maybe anyway to do a "sympathetic" restoration on the gun? Perhaps putting some Renaissance Wax on the gun as one of the posters above said? I think it is really the only way to go with this gun now. I really enjoy reading everyone else's opinion here. Take care, Haenelistklasse


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#12 NFA amnesty

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 09:42 PM

I would have it professionally restored but suggest taking photos showing what it looked like from Katrina and display the restored Thompson with the photos.  Since the weapon will be in a museum hopefully to be shared with future generations, would be great to bring it back to it's glory so folks know what they looked like from the factory.  Restoring  would provide the ultimate protection to preservation in my opinion.  Thinking long term on this one.


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#13 halftrack

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 09:59 PM

I would have it professionally restored but suggest taking photos showing what it looked like from Katrina and display the restored Thompson with the photos.  Since the weapon will be in a museum hopefully to be shared with future generations, would be great to bring it back to it's glory so folks know what they looked like from the factory.  Restoring  would provide the ultimate protection to preservation in my opinion.  Thinking long term on this one.

The museum documents with photos and written summaries every time a weapon is repaired and cleaned. Their preservation files are pretty well kept. Documentation will absolutely be a top priority if Restoration becomes the choice.

Maybe not a full resto but a rebluing leaving the pitting and engraving intact????

Also, what about the other Thompsons in the collection? Restore some, leave some with Katrina scares? Partial restorations?

Edited by halftrack, 30 January 2019 - 10:00 PM.

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#14 NFA amnesty

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 10:10 PM

I would have it professionally restored but suggest taking photos showing what it looked like from Katrina and display the restored Thompson with the photos.  Since the weapon will be in a museum hopefully to be shared with future generations, would be great to bring it back to it's glory so folks know what they looked like from the factory.  Restoring  would provide the ultimate protection to preservation in my opinion.  Thinking long term on this one.

The museum documents with photos and written summaries every time a weapon is repaired and cleaned. Their preservation files are pretty well kept. Documentation will absolutely be a top priority if Restoration becomes the choice.

Maybe not a full resto but a rebluing leaving the pitting and engraving intact????

Also, what about the other Thompsons in the collection? Restore some, leave some with Katrina scares? Partial restorations?

Yes, I like that idea of leaving some "as is", fully restoring a few and partial on others.  Kind of the best of all worlds!!  I misread your first post and only thought the museum had a few examples.


Edited by NFA amnesty, 30 January 2019 - 10:12 PM.

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#15 gijive

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 10:46 PM

In its present condition I would recommend a professional restoration. There are several guys that do this and good ones can make it look like original. Dont know who to recommend but I’m sure some other posters do. Original Colt deserves better than what it looks like now. Also locate that original lower and replace that GI lower. Good luck !

halftrack,

 

Did you remove the buttstock to see if the grip frame serial number matches the receiver?  I agree that the magazine catch and fire select levers are not the original Colt parts, but the rear pistol grip appears to be an original Colt wood part and not WWII GI.  The gun obviously needs to be cleaned and protected from further rust and deterioration.  I'm not sure I would do a complete restoration either, but protecting the gun by cleaning and oiling the original wood would be prudent.  By the way, the front pistol grip is also original.  Thanks for posting the pictures.


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#16 halftrack

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 11:29 PM

Gijive, thanks for your post!

The first thing I wanted to do was remove the butt stock and look for those matching numbers. Unfortunately the stock wasnt coming off with a pull. Its stuck pretty good. This weekend I plan to delicately remove it. I wanted to break it down and examine the internals but didnt have the time today. I will definitely keep this board up to date as I break this one down and others.

I dont want to screw this up, thats why I am reaching out to individuals like yourself and others here and value the advice given.

Recon bob, I see your point. BTW, I love the receiver I got from you.

Edited by halftrack, 30 January 2019 - 11:32 PM.

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#17 TD.

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 11:50 PM

halftrack,

I agree with gijive. The grip is definitely Colt's. I would suggest unscrewing/loosening the two screws holding the butt stock slide group assembly prior to attempting to remove it. If the forward screw has been tightened while the butt stock was attached, you will definitely leave a large, sometime deep, horizontal scratch down the frame if you attempt to remove it by force. This will most likely deface the frame serial number. This condition is common on many Colt's. 

 

I am thinking restoration would be the best outcome. Turnbull Restorations has a great reputation but it is expensive because all the polishing is done by hand. Hand polishing does the least amount of damage to the metal. At the very least I would consult with them. If the frame is not Colt's, then this is one less part that would need to be refinished. 

 

Thanks for sharing and keep us informed.


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#18 Mike Hammer

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 05:06 AM

Halftrack, I am not far away from you. If you would like some help with this project let me know. I would be happy to offer my time any materal needed to get this gun looking better.
Mike H.
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#19 timkel

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 08:03 AM

Disassemble and drop it in a ultrasonic tank of Vapo-rust. The surface rust will wash away.
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#20 Taliaferro

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 08:13 AM

If you decide not to have it restored, you can clean away the rust without any damage to the engraving. Simply place the entire gun disassembled into a

product call WD40 Rust Soak. You can buy it at Lowes or Home Depot. This will remove the rust just follow the instructions. Then apply the Renaissance Wax. 

 

There is always two schools of thought Restoration or Preservation. Since it is in a museum I would suggest Preservation and tell it's whole story. Plus if the

museum wants a TSMG to demo to donors or living history a well preserved TSMG in functioning condition would be a big advantage.

 

Tracie L. Hill


Edited by Taliaferro, 31 January 2019 - 08:14 AM.

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