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ATF Amnesty Periods for Class III


Rekraps
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I was reminded of this topic by a fellow forum member on the MP38/40 forum (How many MP40's are there?) and wanted to open this up for discussion and comment. Many of you may not know that the legislation in '86 closing off new transferrable MG's included an amnesty period whereby those of us, or anyone for that fact, could declare and register with the Feds MG's that were up to that time, essentially ghost guns. There was tremendous speculation about this amnesty being a sham for confiscation etc., but what really happened was that the Feds did in fact stick to their word and grant real amnesty for/to anyone or any business who declared and demonstrated possession of said MG (or what the ATF called/defined as a MG).

 

Now, we also know that a lot (and we all know there was a lot!) of individuals did not trust the Feds, so they simply did not declare their gun. Problem.

 

The legislation allows for up to THREE, yes THREE amnesty periods, of which only one has been implemented to date, that being the original '86 amnesty. During the Pistol Brace public comment period, I submitted a suggestion to the ATF that perhaps the time was right to offer yet another amnesty period. Doing so would:

  • Allow those individuals (and it will be mostly individuals, not companies) who did not trust the Feds, and now know they will not confiscate the guns, to declare them,
  • Allow children and spouses of WW2, Korea and Vietnam vets who many have spirited guns back to the US, and who are passing away in greater numbers, to legally declare and manage such guns,
  • Allow the ATF to get a better handle on how many total MG's there really are, and keep them out of the hands of criminals,
  • Increase the total pool of available transferrable MG's, thus moderating retail pricing,
  • Keep unsuspecting relatives and family members from becoming possible felons, just because dad or grandpa has a gun in the basement or attic.
  • Contribute to the historical value of many really cool C&R guns,

Now, in consideration of the fact that since Vietnam, the military has without question instituted very strong policies on bring backs, I further suggested that the ATF limit the Amnesty qualified MG's (complete weapons) to guns manufactured on or before the last service member departed Vietnam (April 30, 1975). This will eliminate any openly illegal bring backs from then on, and specifically prohibit manufactured receivers "tubes", or domestic manufactured MG's after the declared date of April 30, 1975. In addition, any MG that was federal or state property, and declared stolen etc. would not qualify.

 

So, as an example: My dad dies or moves to an assisted living facility, and when I clean out his attic/home I find a MP 40. Because most WW2, Korean and Vietnam vets are now sufficiently aged that their families are assisting in their care, we can assume that MOST, not all but MOST of the guns in question are now identified. So taking advantage of the amnesty period, I declare it and now the market has another great gun for collectors, this gun will not find its way onto the black market AND the Feds have one less "ghost" gun to worry about. Next example: Uncle dies and we clean out his house and find two M16's, both marked US Government Property. Seems that Uncle snuck them home during the Vietnam war and they are both stolen/contraband. I declare them and the Feds identify them as stolen, thus the guns are accounted for and returned to the Feds. Good ending.

 

So what do you think? I don't know why the ATF does not consider this. Seems to me to be a great policy.

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Did I miss something? The May 19, '86 legislation did not include any amnesty provision, nor were any registrations of newly manufactured MGs legally accepted by ATF/NFA after that date for MG transfers to individuals.

The '68 GCA legislation included three amnesty periods, the first of which lasted through the month of November, 1968. The two remaining legislated amnesties that were part of the GCA '68 law are in limbo. FWIW

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Corrected on the '68 date. All IWI g registration of unregistered guns via an amnesty keeps these guns out of criminal hands because they are brought out of hiding. Otherwise, owners may dispose of them by selling for cash or giving away.
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The "Veterans' Heritage Firearms Act" used to be reintroduced in each new congress. The last time was in the 115th congress, I believe, and we have now the 117th.

 

This would solve all of the problems identified, I believe. Search it out and read it, if you please.

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Well, thanks for the feedback so far. I guess what seemed like a simple idea is not so simple. Was just trying to think of a way to get all the "extra" guns in circulation.

 

Appreciate the feedback!

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There is a degree of logic in play.

 

The reasoning behind resistance to another amnesty is the alleged potential to disrupt investigations that are currently in play.

A fair number within ATFE support a limited form of Amnesty, some would like to see Suppresors, AOWs, SBR's and SBS's removed from the NFA

 

Besides the initial brief Amnesty in 35' there were two others

The 68' Amnesty was about Dewats and DDs which had became regulated under the GCA however it was a broad based event

 

Under Clinton we had another Amnesty when they DD'd Streetsweepers, Strykers and USAS12s

note carefully, that Amnesty was not authorized by Congress, Treasury Sec. Bentsen created it and it went on for quite a period of time, well over a year, maybe two.

 

Technically this is what should have happened with slide fire stock gimmicks however Trump/Sessions sidestepped established procedures setting one seriously awful precedent in the process.

It was interesting in that Feinstein fumed that the administration lacked executive authority to effect such a prohibition, Diane was correct too

it should have been done via Congress, thing is though had it went that direction there likely would have been an Amnesty of sorts on the devices.

 

Frankly, just a very small portion of affected arms were ever registered either in 35 or 68

look at it this way, the production numbers of Stevens stocked Bicycle Rifle SBRs were in the 10s of thousands alone, practically none were ever registered yet they are somewhat easy to find once the Bureau removed them from the NFA.

 

Not too hard to come up with C96 Mausers with matching serial numbered stocks

most were just never registered, collectors quietly traded them, ditto with bring back Great War Artillery Parabellum rigs

to throw a further wrinkle into the situation the NFA as passed had no antique exemption meaning even early arms were potential SBRs, SBS, AOWs

1860 Colt Army model with factory shoulder stock was clearly NFA regulated, truth was though most of America could have cared less about abiding by Morganthau's insanities. Some years later Treasury decided to remove said items from the NFA, same happened shortly after 68' when Congress created DDs, Treasury went in and exempted period artillery in an effort to correct the total mess Dodd foisted upon the bureau.

 

VINTAGE Unregistered Machineguns still exist in significant numbers across America.

The most blatant proof of this is eyeballing Auction sites parts sets listings. Things like saw cut Lewis guns, Maxim MG08/15s that really have never been imported to be kitted up. Single saw cut Mp40s and 44s, saw cut 21' Colts.

For years such things remained hidden or quietly traded among trusted collectors. Today they are coming out of the woodwork as even as a sawn up kit they are worth a great deal of folding money plus the web makes them rather easy to vend. As such, family bring backs are gradually ending up as kits. ATFE is in no panic about this either, they have much bigger fish to fry but it does serve as a rough barometer as to how common unregistered NFA is.

 

Another one to eyeball are H&R Handygun actions, whole gun less barrel, those crop up online regularly

Heck there is a fellow who will "rifle" your .410 Handygun barrel ATFE approved to remove it from NFA regulation

yeah, that's just an indication of how many unregistered Handyguns are still in the wild.

 

As a rural young man in my county I knew of Three combat Vets with unregistered bring backs

one WWII USMC combat engineer had his M3 SMg, was his deer gun out on his farm, he greasegunned a buck or doe every season

Lord knows where the gun went, probably still with the kids or grandkids.

 

Another Korea vet had a Chinese PPSh, he used to swap cut and wrapped Beef steak to me for ammo. Same deal, it's probably still with one of his daughters

 

one other character had a MP44 he came home with post war, picked it up in Berlin. Used to hang on the wall over his fireplace. Heard his grandson swapped it locally for several other guns so it's likely still in some closet, thing is this is a damn' rural area, Old "Joe" the decorated combat vet wasn't going to get any guff over some gun he took off a dead Commie or Nazi. Rural VFWs often had little displays of members bring backs, heck due east of me a tiny rural post office had a MP38 and a MP44 hanging on hooks on the lobby wall into the late 80s, about nothing you saw on display like that was registered either.

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Jim B, what a great summary of what was in my mind, but what I was unable to articulate. Your points are all exactly as I thought and envisioned and that is why I started the thread on this topic. I'm 62, but have seen enough out there to know that you are spot on when it comes to substantial numbers of vintage SMG's etc. that are in limbo. When I lived in Germany in the 80's, my home in a small German town allowed me to get to know the locals well, and aside from not finding a single older German who had fought against the Americans (all claimed to be Eastern Front Vets), there were plenty of people with very nice vintage weapons in the attics and basements. Quite a collection of great guns. I can only imagine what exists in other countries in Europe.

 

So, back to the point of my thread, and that is that I think its time for the Feds to open a limited amnesty again..

 

Thanks for your contribution.

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An amnesty would be welcome by anyone with interest in MGs. It has been discussed and pressed many times since 1968, with every angle and debate pursued. Some 40 years ago I truly believed that I would see a second amnesty sometime, now I am confident that unfortunately there will most likely never be one.
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There is no limit in the law on how many amnesties there can be. For some reason, some folks interpret the 90 days as the total number of days of all amnesties. This is incorrect. An amnesty can be declared for up to 90 days, and the law makes allowance for multiple amnesties.

 

Public Law 90-169 Oct. 22, 1968

Title II

Sec 7273

(d) The Secretary of the Treasury, after publication in the Federal Register of his intention to do so, is authorized to establish such periods of amnesty, not to exceed ninety days in the case of any single period, and immunity from liability during any such period, as the Secretary determines will contribute to the purposes of this title.

 

Since ATF is now part of the Department of Justice, the Attorney General has taken over those duties for ATF that formerly belonged to the Secretary of the Treasury. So, theoretically, the Attorney General could declare a ninety day amnesty at any time. Again, theoretically, he could declare one every year.

 

Will that happen? Not under Biden, for sure! I did send President Trump a letter last year indicating that if he lost the election, an amnesty would be a good idea.

If he wins again, I'll suggest it again.

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  • 2 weeks later...

In theory we could have perpetual amnesties. 90 days each, 4x per year and 5-6 days into the fifth. Long as we are dreaming, may as well dream big.

 

The Veteran’s Heritage Firearms Act was a nice thought but republicans repeatedly refused to pass it when they had control of both chambers and the WH. Short of a third/fourth party miraculously sweeping control it’s hard to imagine.

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