steeltoe1978 Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Friends, My absolute dream gun is a scaled down 1921 Thompson that fires .25 ACP ammo (complete with mini L drums, C drums, and stick mags) Because of the rules, I will most likely be unable to own one of these within my lifetime unless I am a licensed machinegun manufacturer. Now, here's my question.... I have a registered M-11 machinegun Would I be able to scale down/narrow the receiver of my M11 and build something different out of it, or would my design have to have the original receiver completely untouched? If I were able to convert my receiver into a small scale Thompson... what's to stop me from slicing the section of my M11 receiver that contains the serial number and making a SAW or an M60 out of it... you all know much better about how these things work than I do. What are the limits that I can work with in regards to how much I can change one of my registered machine guns into something else (a miniature thompson)? Thanks... and please don't flame me, as this is my first post and I am DEAD serious about wanting this gun. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/smile.gif R, Steeltoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z3BigDaddy Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 This should be a fun thread.... I have great interest in the answer to this one..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeltoe1978 Posted February 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 (edited) QUOTE (Z3BigDaddy @ Feb 22 2006, 09:47 PM) This should be a fun thread.... I have great interest in the answer to this one..... hey, just keep in mind that it was me who proposed a scaled down .25 ACP Thompson. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif -Steeltoe1978 (father of the .25 acp Thompson) Edited February 23, 2006 by steeltoe1978 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Hi Steeltoe 1978, I assume you know at one time a Mr. E.H. de la Garrigue actually manufactured scaled down Thompsons in caliber .25 ACP that were working machine guns subject to transfer tax or with dummy receivers not subject to regulation. I believe these miniature Thompsons were manufactured in the 1970's and all models were available for purchase. J.Curtis Earl marketed these miniature Thompsons at one time. I do not have any production figures, but I believe a fair number were made. It seems like Mr. de la Garrigue was from Texas, but I may be wrong about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Registered part of a mac is the lower isn't it? I've seen a lot of cosmetic changes to mac's maybe this would be workable. Here is another idea to add to the mix. Could you use say a registered UZI bolt to make a new type of gun? Really different from a thompson bolt of course, but could it be the full auto component? Or maybe a lightning link or some sort of registered auto sear? Wait, the best answer would be a broadhead armory sear. Proably aren't any left unbuilt, but maybe you could talk somebody out of theirs by offering say a trade for a westy 28? Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFalGuy Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 "What are the limits that I can work with in regards to how much I can change one of my registered machine guns into something else (a miniature thompson)? Thanks... and please don't flame me, as this is my first post and I am DEAD serious about wanting this gun" I can state without hesitation this is NOT permitted. Registered Uzi bolt you can make about anything- We have seen this with the RoboCop gun Likewise a registered tube-Sten,Sterling and that new thing that Autoweapons.com is selling Building a frame/cover that looks Thompson etc. etc would be doable but I would rahter hunt down oneof these minitures myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 There have been some rulings and I am not sure what they were, but I wouldn't try to do this with a MAC or UZI. Look into what TD mentioned, I have seen picture of those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z3BigDaddy Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 QUOTE (deerslayer @ Feb 22 2006, 11:31 PM) Here is another idea to add to the mix. Could you use say a registered UZI bolt to make a new type of gun? Really different from a thompson bolt of course, but could it be the full auto component? Or maybe a lightning link or some sort of registered auto sear? Wait, the best answer would be a broadhead armory sear. Proably aren't any left unbuilt, but maybe you could talk somebody out of theirs by offering say a trade for a westy 28? Dan I'll take that trade... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/woot.gif But mine is registered as .22/.45 calibre so I don't no if .25 calibre would be allowed... The other thing is that the base gun would have to be a semi-auto that could not be readily made into full auto.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFalGuy Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Z3- Caliber wise wouldn't be a problem at all, one can amend thier form 4 to reflect other calibers but one need not do so- NFA looks for good title and the serial number- barrel lengths can change between owner A and B no problem. My 16 doesn't say anything but 223 and the RDIAS doesn't have anything- but I suppose one could make a list that would fill the form-hahahah Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adlake Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Thought there was a Japanese guy in the 50's or/and 60's making scale .25 autos and there were masterpieces. I think I seem one in my travels.-adlake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 The E.H. de la Garrigue models are beautiful, he made 1928 and M1 replicas. There have been a couple on Evilbay that sold around $1300 or so, with the dummy recievers. Tracie Hill has one as well as many other scale models. Go to the Thompson Show & Shoot in August, you will be able to see them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DINK Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Sorry, but BATFE will not allow excessive modification to a registered M.G. Conversions to another member of the gun's "family" are allowed, but anything radical would not be. For example, if you have a Sten gun, you can convert it into a Sterling or a Lanchester, as they are all "tube guns" using the same basic size and shape for the registered part. Even then, BATFE won't let you move the cocking handle slot in the Sten tube so you have to modify the bolt and cocking handle on your Sterling parts. Taking a MAC M11/9 and trying to convert it to a mini Thompson of some kind wouldn't fly. I seem to recall some enterprising individual in the past who cut out the part of a Sten tube with the markings on it and welded it into the side of an M60 to make a rather odd looking Sten gun. BATFE put the squash on him. Before you start slicing and dicing on a registered receiver, send a letter describing your proposed project to the Technology Branch of BATFE and get their blessing (in writing). It's the only way to be sure of keeping your gun and not going to the Greybar Hotel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandShooter Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Whatever you decide to do it would be best to submit it in writing with any drawings you could make to the BATF for approval. But a thought just occurred to me wouldn't it be much easier to convert a westie .22 to .25???? I know rim fire to center fire. but rework the bolt and make or rework the barrel??? Just a thought. MY.02 BILL OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFalGuy Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 THe barrel and bolt would be doable with a 45 to start with, finding a magazine would be a trick- but at the end of the day it wouldn't be a miniature- rather see the 22 conversion work properly in a WH but then I am selfish and a 22aholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilroyjones Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 The .25 acp is just about a half scale .45, I think a half scale .25 tommy would be a great project. A semi-auto SBR would probably be the best bet, unless you were licensed and built a post-86 sample. I always thought about using .308 links and the .45acp to build a scaled down version of the beltfed 40mm grenade launcher. The .45 and the 40mm round look similar in shape, and being a tripod mounted gun I would think it would be considered a pistol rather than a SBR. Sort of like the Tippman .22 1919's and M2's. Maybe some day I will get the motivation and money to start ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faabala Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 It is too cute.... http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/images/KucerThompson2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFalGuy Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 But Phil- Will it shoot 22's !!!!!!!!!!! hahahahhahahahah Man, I need a 12 step group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amafrank Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 One minor detail that seems to get forgotten.....25ACP is a semi-rim cartridge while .45 ACP is rimless. Its a pain to make mags for the .25 that aren't curved and this was one of the problems with the original models of the thompsons. I fired one back in the early '80s and it worked fine with the drum but the stick mags were a serious failure. I've thought about building a posty as mini's have always been my idea of cool. As to modding another registered receiver or bolt I'd say no go. You can check with tech branch but normally a rule of thumb is any change over 20% on the original receiver is too much. Try to find that in writing and you'll spend some serious time but it seems to be a guideline.. good luck Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 There is a miniture M1 Thompson for sale here LINKY Does not say if it is operational. It's only $1870 http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif To me it does not look of the high qualitity I've seen else where but its better than I could make. Notice it comes with the "original" white lettering http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/cur235a.jpg http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/cur235b.jpg http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/cur235c.jpg http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/cur235d.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Another on for sale but no details or pictures Linky Another miniture (don't know if it fires either) http://www.kucer.homestead.com/files/G_cover.JPG Another mini Thompson (does not fire) http://waynedriskillminiatures.com/db5/00434/waynedriskillminiatures.com/_uimages/delaGarrigue1928Thompson.jpg Another mini Thompson (does not fire) http://waynedriskillminiatures.com/db5/00434/waynedriskillminiatures.com/_uimages/ThompsonM-1QuarterScale.jpg Another Linky Another Linky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACARLG Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 • BEYOND THE RHINE, by Donald R. Burgett is the autobiographical story of the last days of nazi Germany by a trooper in the 101st Airborne. He liberated concentration camps, and met unrepentant nazis. Some did not want to obey the occupation orders, until he pointed his .45 at them. One nazi thug looked down the barrel, said "big", and complied (and Col. Cooper says “told yaâ€). Another trooper captured a .25 caliber Thompson gun in a warehouse of guns from different countries and ages. The half-sized gun worked. http://www.wmsa.net/liberty_notes/ln_011012.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFalGuy Posted April 24, 2006 Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 I think there is a table of minatures at SAR every year and they are works of art- do not recall the craftmans name. I must admit a character flaw in myself in that I don't spend much time looking since they don't "work"... Seems I have a hard time appreciating /desiring to own something that looks like a weapon that doesn't go bang. Now a Tippman............................ Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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