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Finally Gonna Buy Me One


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All;

I have now gotten to the point I want a M1 or a 1928 probably a military gun not pristine but decent shape. I have a friend who has two a M1 and a 1928, so I am looking at a shooter, but not something so pristine it is a wall hangar like his 1928. Obviously I have been looking around the web, Gunbroker, some dealers etc. I have been on the board and off for a while and now on looking again but now my funds will be in; in a few weeks from settling my father's estate. I have some leads but I thought I may try here too. I have a C&R, so any comments, what or who to watch out for since I am a what for it....a newbie...are appreciated. I have been told the West Hurley's may need work to be reliable shooters, or some do. I would like to avoid start up issues until I get up to speed so to say. Had a semi auto many many years ago, put lend lease wood on it, fixed it for military mags, was ok for what it was, now I want a real one. So if you recommend some good sources, price ranges, spare parts etc. I would appreciate that.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

TomIII

 

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Vettom,

Welcome to the Thompson Forum. You have come to the right place. My suggestion is to keep your money in your pocket until you are not a newbie. This is a very expensive purchase. My guess is you will only buy one Thompson submachine gun during your lifetime. Learn before you leap. There is a lot of junk on the market. Purchase a few books and join both Thompson associations and attend the shows and shoots. There you will see first hand the product you desire and be able to narrow down what Thompson variation you want. The contacts you make at these events are invaluable. If you get in a hurry without learning about the product, there is a good chance you will end up very disappointed. Be a smart buyer. The hunt is really all the fun. Learn from each picture review and inspection. Once you plunk down your money, the waiting game begins. It really does not matter what else comes on the market because you are most likely spent out. Make yourself wise about the Thompson gun. It will serve you well when acquiring what you hope will be a family asset.

 

Questions. And yes, you should have plenty, i.e., what books, Thompson associations, this forum, etc.

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Welcome to the board, you definitely came to the right place. The folks here are always polite, ready, and willing to help with all your Thompson questions.

 

If I might add, unless you already have them;start with- American Thunder III, and The Ultimate Thompson Book for some good Thompson info/reading.

 

Andrew

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decide if you want to use drums or not.....if you want the classic gangster look or the all out ww2 look...that will decide the 1928 or the m1

 

decide if you want original finish or refinish

 

decide if you want matching #/original or not

 

price ranges that actually sell are $20,000-25,000....Ruben always has nice refinished ones for $27-28

 

a really nice original m1 just sold 2 weeks ago for $23k

 

post up the ones your looking at for opinions

 

most are pitted/refinished/mismatch for $25,000+ and sit for months....

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Welcome!

 

Another good suggestion is to attend either the TATA or TCA show and shoots. The latest TATA show featured TD here presenting about what you might have missed and want to know about some guns he saw for sale at the Creek this spring. Great information about how not to potentially make a mistake when buying a big ticket item like a Tommy.

 

I think it will be presented again at the TCA show in September.

 

Worth the cost of admission...!

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huggy and all;

ponder these criteria, I have, so part of me says it will depend on the piece, price and spares, and yes I want a family asset(s), I have a separate trust for hardware, if I use it. I appreciate the feedback, and yes I will post a link to what I see for y'alls guidance. FWIW, I am in Central NC. Yes, things for FA were very problematic here in NC for many years but we (www.GRNC.org) have made this legislatively better for all Class III. I have been walking the halls of the General Assembly since 1995 on 2A, got to walk the walk, not just talk.

Now,

Refinished, depending on price, I have a C96 transition and Artillery Luger coming that are refinished for shooters. Again, it depends on finish and the particulars.

OK, lets try this one link I found:

https://www.davidspiwak.com/gun/west-hurley-thompson-m1-2/

Thank you for your on going comments

TomIII

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I would recommend against this dealer. Ive had major issues w him. Others have similar issues but dont talk about it in the open. He is cheap , gives poor service and often sells junk. I know from exoerience he doesnt even test function of his guns on even a basic level.

 

Also thats a west Hurley. Not a ww2 gun

 

Your budget needs to be around $23,000 for a ww2 shooter grade. $18,000 gets you problematic junk

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Two words: Buyer beware!

 

More words: Welcome to the Board, and the game! I am not a Thompson expert. When I've made incorrect posts here, others have always politely corrected me, for which I am humbly grateful. Most sellers, be they dealers or individuals, are not Thompson experts. The Thompson, as a class, has a number of genus and species variations that can be daunting. As a result and unfortunately, misrepresentations are made, be it due to malice. ignorance, or hubris (too proud to admit that they don't know or may be wrong). So, as others have advised, you must be your own critical evaluator/buyer.

 

Thompson accessories is another game of its own, with the same caveats.

 

Best of luck and enjoy whatever you decide to pursue, MP

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Ive never had an issue with David Spiwak. Ive bought 4 class 3 from him, and all are very nice, all matching ww2 examples. You just dont want to rush and do your research and ask questions. When the right one comes along and it checks out then be ready to mail the check.

 

I agree. Avoid the west Hurley and spend a few more thousand to get a true ww2 or earlier example - for a few more thousand :)

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Vettom,

giantapanda4 is right on point. Click on the below link for the Thompson Collectors Association. For some reason a membership application is not attached for download. However, e-mail Mike Wank and he will fill you in on all the particulars for membership and the upcoming TCA Show & Shoot.

 

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20200

 

You are close enough to travel to the show by vehicle. Some members come from much further away.

 

West Hurley Thompson guns are a variation you really need to understand before taking the plunge. They can be very problematic. These guns were made to compete at the bottom of the Thompson market from 1975 to 1986. The retail price started around $400. A nice World War II M1/M1A1 Thompson would be a much better gun for a newbie.

 

If you do not have American Thunder III by Frank Iannamico, go to the below website and order and study it before making a purchase decision:

 

https://www.smallarmsreview.com/inventory/detail.item.cfm?product_id=166

 

The Ultimate Thompson Book is also a great investment, especially for the Colt's, but costs a lot more. Start with American Thunder III.

 

Frank is usually at the Show so bring your copy and he will personalize it.

 

Read the above comments by Board members. You will find the advice on this Forum pretty good!

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TD, thank you I did try the email for Mike Wank and the email did not work, it bounced, I'll try again later. IT WORKS NOW, go the application and site. Appreciate the M1A1 advice and from the board members as I am considering that one anyway.

 

As far as Spiwak goes; I have discussed some of his sales with two people I know who have shared info on their purchases and received items from him, Thompsons and some other items as well. That said; caution is always a prudent purchase practice regardless of any vendor just to ensure you really did get what you really paid for. As far as other dealers and owners out there, my gun brothers have put me in touch with local well established Dealer who is going to help me with transfer, papers etc. Since he is local and has customers who may or could have some possible items for sale. We are circling the wagons tonight to discuss, so will see what happens since I am not in a rush, I can get it right.

 

I will order the books tonight and look forward to being more active in the TCA, although I don't have one just yet and can't get the links to work...

Edited by Vettom
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Vettom,

TD is right on with all that he says

Get those books!! $200 will get you a lot of knowledge and help you learn and at the same time , help you

avoid costly mistakes

 

I would have given anything to have asked your questions and gotten those books before

I embarked 2 years ago and bought a West Hurley 1928

not knowing what it was. It truly was like owning a boat.Best day when I bought it and best day when I sold it!!

.One of the best things that happened to me was to have sold it and broke even.

 

Still tied up 22k in funds and got to shoot it once and they will not appreciate in value compared to WW2 guns.

and they are not as good mechanically and the West Hurley Guns are not as consistent as WW2 guns

and some need to be "tweaked" as compared to a AO or Savage built

WW2 gun.

 

I have made minor blunders since then and its been a rewarding learning experience.

 

 

The 1928 was essentially a duplicate of the 1921 Colt Thompson .The 1921 Colt Thomson had some modifications done

(called the US Nayy Model of 1928).

Many of the Original 1921 Thompsons were modified in accordance with this change.It was mainly an internal change to

slow down the rate of fire.

That design was later made for WW2 from 1940 to October 1942. Those models took the drums and stick magazines.

 

The Military wanted to simplify production and reduce costs

The M1 and M1a1 came in mid 1942 and was produced till June 44

These models could not accept drums,,,,,,,,,,,the cocking handle was on the side.. The barrels had no fins, the rear sight was

fixed instead of adjustable , no compensator,the buttstock was no longer detachable and the bolt was changed and simplified.

 

I would recommend looking at the WW2 guns which were produced by Savage under contract to Auto Ordnance and

also by Auto Ordnance once they got their own plant up and running

 

Good luck in your search and welcome to the board here.

 

Many of the board members(not me) are authorities and have been published.

 

Get the Ultimate Thompson Book by Hill and American Thunder III by Iannamico and you

will be amazed as to what a weath of knowledge lies within!

 

 

Good luck in your search and welcome to the board here.

 

Best,

Haris

 

Edited by Haris357
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Welcome Vettom.

I was doing the same thing as you last year. I settled on getting an M1A1 and bought a nice one from Dan Shea for a little more than a Westie. The GI guns are out there i just saw one on Sturmgewehr.com price lowered and its one i would be checking out if i was looking. Be patient and buy the right one ( not a westie) and you will be happy. My M1A1 runs great and is simple and well built. Post your searches here and utilize the vast knowledge that exists on this forum.

Vin

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Note: I hid a post from 8:51pm by a board member who I've met several times at KCR. I want him to know that he is welcome here, and I hope to continue to see him here, and in person in our collector/shooter circles. We are both West Hurley owners, and I'm not aware of West Hurley owners being any less welcomed than other members, which was mentioned in his post. Many members here own West Hurleys. I would love to own a Colt...and someday, I plan to own one. I would still hold my West Hurley Thompson in high regard if I owned a Colt, or other Thompson, because I've owned it for 30 years, and it's a trusted firearm that I enjoy very much. It's my only TSMG, just like the member who posted's WH 1928 is his only TSMG, and he is proud of it. The post that I hid was minutes old, and did not contribute positively towards the board, so I felt it better to hide it from view. I hope this will be understood, and that we may move forward...

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I love my West Hurley M1 Thompson. It runs great.

 

That being said, research the differences to fully understand what you want, and be patient. One will present itself. I know of a few that are waiting in the wings...They will appear in due time on Sturm.

 

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

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please inform me on what you all had to do to fix/upgrade/render your West Hurley (or any other make less problematic (if that applies) thanks in advance. I get it these are mass produced and will have issues, wear and tear, abuse, and parts do break. Edited by Vettom
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Vettom,

 

There are many posts on this board covering the pros and cons of West Hurley Thompsons. The issues are most prevalent in the WH Model 1928. Most of the M1's work well, though there have been some exceptions. You will hear more about the WH's that don't work right, because folks have looked to this board for advice to make them better. Many WH guns run without issue.

 

I suggest spending some time doing searches on this board, and beginning in the pinned section at the top of the board. The following pinned post has some technical info about WH Thompsons as posted by PK.

 

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9693

 

David Albert

dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

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I purchased a shooter grade USGI M1A1 from Mr. Spiwak and he, his wife and brother in law Ron has been great to work with. The weapon is sitting at my dealers waiting for my Form 4 approval and have not fired it yet, but Spiwak states if I have any issues he would take it back. I made the mistake of not requesting a copy of the previous form 4 prior to purchasing as I am doing research on it, but he promptly sent me the copy after the Thompson was transferred to my dealer.

 

This is my experience with him but not trying to discount others who state they have had issues.

 

The receiver is marked a.o.c. near the mag well and the lower is also an auto ordnance but have no way of knowing if the upper and lower are original to each other as the markings were grounded off along with the serial number and was amnesty registered with an IRS number on top of the receiver. Upper and lower fit is nice and tight but of course has been refinished.

 

I wanted a shooter, but a USGI (love the history) and not a commercial copy regarding West Hurley. My knowledge of Thompsons is rather lacking and have learned a lot from others on this forum. I am sure you will find the right Thompson for you regardless if it is a Hurley or one of the various models.

 

Welcome and have fun with your journey.

Edited by NFA amnesty
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Vettom,

Not sure what all the fuss is about but most on this board know that I own a 1928 West Hurley Thompson. It is the only Thompson gun I own. I bought it years ago and must admit it ran pretty good after a Board member replaced the original WH barrel with a Doug Richardson barrel. It now runs perfectly and looks as nice as any Colt's thanks to the work by Board member PK at Diamond K in Delta, Colorado. And the beautiful wood by Board member deerslayer (Dan Block). That said, I believe those considering a purchase of WH Thompsons at todays very inflated prices need to understand what they are purchasing. These civilian manufactured submachine guns were not manufactured to absolute GI specifications with government inspectors checking daily for any potential problems. One of my favorite stories published in Small Arms Review magazine, November 2011, is titled, Those West Hurley Thompson Parts. It is worth your time to find and read the story if you are seriously considering purchasing a WH Thompson gun. For the record, I really like this variation. It was a Thompson gun I could buy at the time without breaking the bank. However, I understood the extra expense and time involved waiting for PK to remanufacture it to a thing of beauty. Most of that knowledge came from research performed on this Forum. Scroll down to post #75 of the below thread to see how well my WH runs!

 

http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21367&page=4

 

I may do this again at the upcoming TCA Show & Shoot. See you there!

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I was new here last year and looking to buy my first thompson. I wanted a GI gun so the WH was out even without all the stay away advice. Some years back the WH was significantly less than an original GI gun and it made sense if you were on a budget to buy one. In todays world they are as much as and even more than a WW2 gun if you can believe that. I got my 1943 savage M1A1 for less than the WH M1s listed at the time i was looking. Something else to consider is resale and value of both guns. The GI gun is going to be your best investment whether ita 1928 or M1. I have no experience with the WH guns but from what i have read if they have been over to see Mr PK in colo they are worth the extra money. The ones that have not seen PK are a crap shoot. Just my 2 cents.
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I had a bad experience with David Spiwak about 10 years ago. SMG was described as matching and original finish. It was neither and to add to that it was non functioning. He did take it back but that ended my dealings with him. Regarding West Hurley Thompsons: I purchased an M1 WH a couple years ago. I already owned 2 original WW2 Thompsons ( M1, M1928A1 ) and wanted a shooter. It ran well but I wasn't happy with the bluing and non USGI components( mag release, rear sight, bolt, upper grip mounting plate, etc). I sent it to John Andrewski to have it refinished and to replace all non USGI components and properly spec the mag well. He did a fantastic job! ( will post pictures soon ). Anyway, I personally don't have a problem with WH Thompsons but if this is your first purchase or your only Thompson purchase I would strongly recommend that you wait for an original USGI WW2 Thompson. Good luck! Todd in Oregon

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Nothing wrong with the WH guns but like TD says, be ready for the time and expense that it may need. Mine didnt need anything and since

it was owned for 20 years by the former owner, i doubt that he had anything done to it. Its hit or miss with a WH but if you can get it right

and be prepared to spend time and money to bring it to GI specs. Just my 2 c

 

As Petroleum1 put it: Something else to consider is resale and value of both guns. The GI gun is going to be your best investment whether its 1928 or M1.

Edited by Haris357
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