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Need Advice On U.S. Model 12


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They state that thier shields fit " original" guns. The original trench bbls did not taper , therefore the bbls are thicker at the muzzle. ID of heatshield may be too large for your 30" tapered . I'd check with them to be sure of a fit , first.

On the screws , the notches were so tight that the threads of the screw were impressed into the notch bottoms . Ie. , they kindda-sorta thread through rather than just slip through . Had a friend with a import repro '97 , shot fine till he put a bayonet on it. The added mass caused the recoiling gun to pull out of the heatshield . The screws were not set in deep enough ( or would you call it too deep ? )to get a good bite.

Chris

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That was my point , in one breath they say one thing , in another , the other . I would just think it wise to ask and remove all chance of disappointment is all.

 

I also wanted to ask you , as you have thier S heatshields , when you blued them , did the adapter piece turn the odd hue like the originals are ? I would think not because the reason for the odd color is an open debate still ( AFAIK ) . I was just wondering if 1 ) they had solved the mystery and 2 ) if this is no longer a way to tell repros from originals .My 520-30 trench was wearing a W handguard till I picked up a S one last year . I matches the condition of the gun very well and has the correct hue and marks for my production date , so I think it is real , but want to double check with you.

Thanks , Chris

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I have two of their mounts. I bought two fake Stevens trench guns from Counterfeit Trench Guns, LLC, and the mounts were already installed. As these are sold in the white, I believe that Counterfeit did the finishing when they did the guns. Anyway, the mounts are that beautiful Stevens dark reddish purple, while the hand guards are blued. Don't know how Counterfeit achieved this, but the effect is just right.

 

Counterfeit's guns are refinished, of course, but it's about the nicest job I've ever seen. A great deal of care was taken to achieve the exact finishes in wood and metal that the original Stevens trench guns had. Butt plates and rear sling swivels are brand new, but are correct.

Edited by TSMGguy
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Ok.... I had an e-mail exchange with East Taylor, LLC in regard to the fit of the bayonet attachment, here are the e-mails.

 

My 1st e-mail to East Taylor, LLC

 

"I have a question in regard to your reproduction Winchester Model 97 TRENCH GUN BAYONET ATTACHMENT.

 

I would like to fit this to a Winchester Model 12. My gun has a commercial barrel that I intend to cut down to the correct 20 in. length. Commercial barrels have a slightly smaller diameter than trench gun barrels as I'm sure you are aware. Will I need to use some sort of shim to get a tight, secure fit to the smaller commercial barrel?"

 

Response from East Taylor, LLC

 

 

"the barrel out side diameter @ 20" is .870 " you will heed to confirm your barrel OD to this . because the aftermarket barrels are not consistent in the correct OD @ .870 you will need a micrometer or vernier caliper to measure your barells OD ."

 

 

 

My 2nd e-mail to East Taylor, LLC

 

"I checked my barrel. It measures out at .850......so, what does this mean? Is there a tolerance range for the attachment? Can I expect a tight, secure fit? If not, can you suggest a method to make the fit tight & secure?"

 

 

Response from East Taylor, LLC

 

"it will not be a tight fit. however, original trech gun barrels have 3 shallow grooves under the barrel.this is for the attachment scews to allow clearence when they are screwed in to the attachment. this secures the attachment to the barrel so it dont fly off whan the gun is shot. plus a shim could help too."

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Lancer,

 

Don't know whether or not you've had the chance to examine a mount, original or repro. They slide onto the barrel, but they clamp down on it, too. Installed and tightened down, all three of my mounts (repros on the two Stevens and the original on the Winchester M12) have a gap of about 1/16" in the clamp under the bolts. They can go tighter by that amount, and could be loosened up some, too. So, there may be enough "slop" in the design of the repro mount to accommodate minor barrel diameter variations. You could always send it back if it could not be fitted. If fitting is successful, you could then have the mount and bolts properly polished/blued.

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I'm going to go ahead and order the attachment. I think East Taylor didn't want to be in a position of saying flat out it would fit and then having to deal with a problem if it didn't. I can't blame the guy for covering his ass. I'll post pics and thoughts when I get it.
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Here's one of the repro bayonet mounts on a post war commercial Stevens 620A. These guns are pretty easy to convert since the commercial and trench magazine tubes and end plugs were the same, as well as the barrel taper.

 

The first photo shows the correct lower sling swivel and its installation.

 

This gun of course lacks the martial markings and the serial number falls outside of the trench gun range. Otherwise, it's a faithful replica that is beautifully made and finished.

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TSMGguy

Nice trench gun. Is this one of the Counterfeit Trench Guns you were talking about? What did you have give this.

 

Yes, and this one's just like mine, also from Counterfeit. $850.

Edited by TSMGguy
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  • 3 weeks later...

This looks to be the real McCoy from a later "rough milled" M12. Notice how the rivets stand out slightly. They were more flush with the hand guard on the earlier blued (commercial finish) M12s.

 

The seller is also selling a Winchester riot M12. He states that "This heat shield bolts right on & looks amazing on the gun". Not hardly. The mount could not be slid onto and secured to the riot gun's barrel. The brass bead, barrel clamp, and take-down style magazine tube plug would all be in the way.

Edited by TSMGguy
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  • 3 months later...
  • 6 months later...

UPDATE:

 

After many months of searching and a few dollars spent I was able to procure an original barrel & heat shield/bayonet attachment to restore my M-12 back to it's original Trench Gun configuration. It's not perfect but I'm pretty happy with it all the same.

 

Thanks to everyone that weighed in with advise & opinions......greatly appreciated.

 

 

Trench 1.jpg

Trench 2.jpg

Trench 3.jpg

Trench 4 (800x590).jpg

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Wright's Inc. mounted the barrel, installed the front sight bead on the heat shield that was missing, checked for worn parts & function tested. I thought their charge was pretty reasonable and they had a pretty quick turn around time of about 2 1/2 weeks.

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Looks great!

 

If you like, you might take the extra step and blue and polish the lug/heat shield assembly. Winchester did not mix parked assemblies with blued.

 

Yes, I know they didn't mix parked with blued but the barrel & heat shield are what I was able to find. Both the barrel & shield have original finish, I don't like to mess with original finishes. The shield has the "W" stamp on it......I could be wrong about this but I don't think any of this variant were ever blued.

 

The cartouche on the stock was mostly removed also, so....Like I said....it's not perfect but it still, at least, has all original period parts.

 

If I ever run across a blued barrel, shield and correctly cartouched stock.....I'll snap then up.

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