keregrant Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Can anyone help me to identify why my Thompson M1A1 is fitted with a Cutts Compensator? I was always taught that the Cutts Compensator was never fitted to the M1 or M1A1, however I now find that I may have been put wrong. And just a Little more info for you if it at all helps: THOMPSON M1A1 .45 SUBMACHINE GUN WITH CUTTS COMPENSATOR, FULLY FUNCTIONING, DATED 1943.Serial number #439206.Barrel marked “P”.Left side of receiver stamped “Thompson Submachine Gun, Caliber 45 M1A1”.“GHD” crossed cannons ordnance mark.Also “BNP” stamped indicating its possible use by the British military.Right side of receiver stamped “Auto Ordnance Corporation, Bridgeport, Connecticut, USA”. “AOC” stamped on the bottom of the receiver where the front grip mount is fitted.“US PROPERTY” stamped on the receiver just behind the rear sight.Left side of receiver also stamped with the ‘Star of David’ Israeli acceptance markings indicating use by the IDF.Complete with a 30 round magazine marked “The Seymour Products Company, Seymour, Conn.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph12297 Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Hello, My opinion is it has a barrel swapped out from a Model 1928, as the comp is a WW2 production type and many of the 1928 military barrels did not have cooling fins. Very cool piece of history!!!!!! There were no compensated M1 or M1A1 Military Thompson's. Edited October 31, 2014 by joseph12297 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james m Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) I just finished an appraisal on an M1A1 Thompson that had these characteristics:The barrel was finned and had a Cutts Compensator installed. A 28 adjustible rear sight had been installed as well and the whole gun was stripped and commercially blued.The present owner had purchased this Thompson back in the 70s when prices were just a fraction of what they are today.I explained that financially he'd have been better off leaving it original but he shrugged and said that was the way he wanted it to be.Jim Edited October 31, 2014 by james m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keregrant Posted November 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 I just finished an appraisal on an M1A1 Thompson that had these characteristics:The barrel was finned and had a Cutts Compensator installed. A 28 adjustible rear sight had been installed as well and the whole gun was stripped and commercially blued.The present owner had purchased this Thompson back in the 70s when prices were just a fraction of what they are today.I explained that financially he'd have been better off leaving it original but he shrugged and said that was the way he wanted it to be.Jim Crazy... As a collector, I find that extremely sad... I spotted this wonderful Thompson at a recent auction and was so intrigued by its history and unusual characteristics that I just couldn't resist buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keregrant Posted November 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 Hello, My opinion is it has a barrel swapped out from a Model 1928, as the comp is a WW2 production type and many of the 1928 military barrels did not have cooling fins. Very cool piece of history!!!!!! There were no compensated M1 or M1A1 Military Thompson's. Thank you so much, joseph12297. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) I don't how it worked for Thompsons, but the US army had a massive rebuild program for garands The guns were stripped down into big piles of parts which were gauged and the worn out parts were discarded Bad barrels were replaced with new production barrels The stocks were sanded down on huge belt sanders or replaced with new walnut or birch stocks Then the garands were re-assembled at random from the big piles of parts and the stocks were stamped by the arsenal that did the rebuild sometimes the receiver would be electropenciled by the arsenal The army had about as much care for the originality of the garands as you have for the originality of the lawnmower in your garage In addition to the above, damaged and worn out garands were rehabilitated at the company level in the field by unit armorers The moral to the story is, your M1A1 has a had a barrel swap because the original barrel wore out My M1A1 has a RIA rebuild stamp and it had a lyman sight on it. I had reconbob switch it out for an original M1A1 sheet metal sight I think it's a waste of time to try to make a fake "original" out of a gun that's been rebuilt. but on the other hand once it's not original anymore it hardly matters what you do with it ETA - RIA = "rock island arsenal" Edited November 1, 2014 by buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 Army rebuild programs were explicit with instructions on what to replace with what new parts. So it would be rare to replace a non-comp barrel with a comp barrel, even though they might have physically fit. That is going the wrong direction.I believe this is just a later swap for someone who wanted his Tommy Gun to have a Comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stgw. 57 Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) If memory serves me right I have seen one or two pictures of M1's and M1A1's with "wrong" barrels = M1928 barrels being used in the PTO. In my opinion barrels must have been swapped in armouries at divisional or corps level. Edited November 1, 2014 by Stgw. 57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnshooter Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) Some of the rent-a-gun stores have sample M1s dressed in threaded barrel, comp, and vertical foregrip. Plenty renters who don't know the difference. Edited November 7, 2014 by mnshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anjong-ni Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 That's REALLY nice, Keregrant. The wear on the entire gun certainly looks consistent with being original. It had quite a career!If it were re-barreled, it might show marks on the barrel or receiver, and the compensator would probably have had to be removed and re-aligned.Can you show the IDF markings? For what it's worth, Perry, our armorer at Direct Support level (battalion), overseas in 1971, couldn't (wouldn't) have replaced a Thompson barrel....Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james m Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 Replacing a barrel is a piece of cake with one of D Richardson's barrel vises. I did several and sold mine to a forum member when I no longer needed it.Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keregrant Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) That's REALLY nice, Keregrant. The wear on the entire gun certainly looks consistent with being original. It had quite a career!If it were re-barreled, it might show marks on the barrel or receiver, and the compensator would probably have had to be removed and re-aligned.Can you show the IDF markings? For what it's worth, Perry, our armorer at Direct Support level (battalion), overseas in 1971, couldn't (wouldn't) have replaced a Thompson barrel....Phil Hi, Phil, No, there aren't any marks from a re-barrelling... However, I have just noticed that the barrel itself is also stamped 'BNP' so must have been done while in military hands in the UK... Here are a few pics of the markings on the gun:- http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/keregrant/MyThompson12_zpsd2720d09.jpg[/url] http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/keregrant/MyThompson11_zpsa8ce1a63.jpg[/url] http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/keregrant/MyThompson10_zps44ebb6a7.jpg[/url] http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/keregrant/IMG_1959_zpsbfcf1050.jpg[/url] http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/keregrant/IMG_1956_zps57a4429a.jpg[/url] http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/keregrant/IMG_1955_zps6b8865ba.jpg[/url] These are the Israeli acceptance stars:- http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/keregrant/IMG_1954_zpsc02e19b4.jpg[/url] http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/keregrant/IMG_1950_zps6db432e6.jpg[/url] Edited November 5, 2014 by keregrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThompsonCrazy Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 This is a beautiful weapon and piece of history. Thank you for taking the time to share and provide great photos. The stories this one could tell? It sure is well traveled. Does the lower receiver have a serial number stamped on it? Does it match or is it different or not numbered at all? TC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keregrant Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) This is a beautiful weapon and piece of history. Thank you for taking the time to share and provide great photos.The stories this one could tell? It sure is well traveled. Does the lower receiver have a serial number stamped on it? Does it match or is it different or not numbered at all? TC Hi, TC... Thanks, for your kind words, Mate... It certainly 'is' well travelled, and finally ends up here in New Zealand... No, it's not numbered on the lower receiver at all... I did read that some of the later M1A1's from AOC came without the serial number on the trigger guard... Grant. Edited November 5, 2014 by keregrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThompsonCrazy Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) Such an interesting piece. The longer I stare at the photos the more I appreciate it! -Would the "A1" overstamp indicate a rebuild.... Maybe not. Either directed to update the M1 inventory or had a malfunction and the A1 bolt was on hand.-Non-cross bolt stock... Looks good and is correct for the M1. One less thing to try to track down.-Upper and lower both have the circle and star marks so they were together when they were handed over to that government. If you could speculate that timeframe you could estimate how long that has been.-The wood matches nicely to each pieces condition and to the condition of the metal.-British proofed barrel and side sling mount modification.-I don't know the rebuild practices of other countries, not an expert on the US of A either, but most rebuilds would have been refinished with Parker Lubrite and stamped at the arsenal when done by the states. If the barrel was shot out or damaged, etc then your think the whole weapon would have been serviced, upgraded to protected sight, cross-bolt stock, refinished. -I've never really tried to study sight rivets of USGI Thompsons. The dimples look good. I wouldn't think an arsenal upgrade would have such clean dimples and surrounding metal but if they had a special service tool I can imagine it would be possible. Not sure about the lack of finish. I have a late 28 with L sight with nice dimples, original finish and the rivets are dark/match the rest of the upper and lower. I'm thinking there is just no way to tell how much is original or not. If it was an early M1 where they had a left over smooth barrel with compensator then it should have an L sight. Also if it was an early M1 with smooth barrel/compensator, never seen before but I would believe in it being original more than I would ghosts, I would think it would have a serialed lower. Lots of questions with no certain answers except one: It's yours, it's beautiful and it is intact! Congrats on a great piece once again! Cheers!TC P.S. Early M1's also used modified 1928 pistol grips. These would show more rounded contours and have the slit down the middle which would be visible from the rear view even while installed. The wood, since easily changed, will not show anything definitive but is another consideration while doing the forensic study of the weapon. Edited November 5, 2014 by ThompsonCrazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raining Brass Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 What a great looking piece. I love the patina. Nice find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Askew Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 I have seen a M1 with a 28 threaded smooth barrel and a pinned M1 front sight. My guess was "any port in a storm". Why would they not use that barrel if that was all they had. Just my .02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 I have seen a M1 with a 28 threaded smooth barrel and a pinned M1 front sight. My guess was "any port in a storm". Why would they not use that barrel if that was all they had. Just my .02.Exactly, the military cared very little for the feeling of collectors, 70 years in the future. Such uncaring bastards. Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye_Joe Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 I was always taught that the Cutts Compensator was never fitted to the M1 or M1A1Never say never.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keregrant Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 I was always taught that the Cutts Compensator was never fitted to the M1 or M1A1Never say never.................. Ha ha, absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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