John Jr Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Does anyone know anything about Roger Cox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 He is a partner in a Massachusettes law firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 smoker Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Yes,...he is a lawyer ia a successful practice in Mass...call him and he will talk `Thompsons` for an hourly rate... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Thanks guys Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIONHART Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Sarco Inc. sold the rights to the Cox book several years ago. To whom, I have no idea. I contacted Charlie last year inquiring to find out who, but at that time, they couldn't come up with the name of the individual. Perhaps someday it will be reprinted. Let's all hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 I wonder if he would sign his book? Anyone have any more specific contact information? michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecondAmend Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Cut and Paste from the Martindale-Hubbell Website: Roger A. Cox Member Cox & Cox 30 Main Street, Suite 9 Ashland, Massachusetts 01721-1178 (Middlesex Co.) Telephone: 508-231-1460 Fax: 508-231-1405 Rated AV Practice Areas: Civil Law; Criminal Litigation; Contract Law; Professional Malpractice; Civil Rights Law; Zoning Cases Law; Business Law; Federal and State Criminal Defense Law; General Civil Law; Criminal Trial Law; Appellate Practice Admitted: 1988, Massachusetts, U.S. District Court, District of Massachusetts and U.S. Court of Appeals, First, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Ninth and Tenth Circuits; 1991, U.S. Court of Appeals, Second Circuit and U.S. Supreme Court; 1994, U.S. District Court, Northern District of Texas Law School: Georgia State University, J.D., 1987 College: University of Georgia, B.B.A., 1985 Member: Boston (Member, Committee on Professionalism; Criminal Justice Section), Massachusetts, Federal and American Bar Associations; National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers; Association of Trial Lawyers of America; Massachusetts Academy of Trial Attorneys; Massachusetts Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. Biography: Phi Alpha Delta. Moot Court Board. Law Clerk, Professor Alan M. Dershowitz, Harvard Law School, 1987-1988. Born: Vienna, Austria, June 13, 1949 As for reprinting his 1982 book, at the risk of heresy, and with all due respect to Mr. Cox, why bother? I spent the $5 to get my local library to get a loaner from one of the couple dozen libraries that have copies. Best $5 I've ever spent. Saved me from wasting $300+ on a book that was clearly outstripped by Tracie Hill's book. Mr. Cox's book has been superceded by a better model. MHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Admittedly, Roger's book may be somewhat dated now, but if you were interested in Thompsons around the time it was published, it was "the book to have." In my opinion, Helmer and Cox were the main two individuals that attempted to provide some historical accuracy and perspective about the Thompson. J. Curtis Earl may have owned a lot of guns and sold them at outrageous prices, but he never published any material about the gun other than his self-promoting catalogues. How about his bogus 1st model compensator scam to try and sell guns? Say what you will about Roger, I never knew him to purposely misrepresent any of the guns he sold. Helmer and Cox renewed interest in the Thompson and helped make it the collectible firearm it is today. I think Thompson collector's owe them a debt of gratitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aut-ord-co Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 I agree with gijive. Roger's book not only was historical but it also had focus for the collector. He talked about grading (which few people do), differences, etc. At a time when not much information was readily available to the collector, aside from the manuals, a few catalogs and military printings, his book filled a need. And quite honestly, I didn't do much for a few days when that book arrived at the house back in 1982 . It also generated a few strange looks and some good bs on several late plane rides. A somewhat different reaction than you might get in '04. Roger always alerted his customers with letters and lists when new guns were coming in. I'm sure people here were on his mailing list. I heard others have had different experiences. I had only good experiences with Roger, in purchases and in general good conversation. He and Bill Helmer deserve our salute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIONHART Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Both the Roger Cox, and the Hill book have numerous errors. I would rather read the Cox book over Hill's anyday of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Roger Cox's book has the mystique about it till this day. The fact that he originally sold the book for $30 back in 1982 and now it commands $300 is not his fault. That the book has escalated in price regardless of other books about TSMG's on the market is a testament to his pioneering work in researching a submachine gun and then publishing his efforts in hardcover volume. Cox's list of original PD's and businesses that purchased the Colt TSMG's from Auto-Ord is infinitely more valuable info than Hill's dates of manufacture that only span eight months anyway. SecondAmend, you appreciate the fact that libraries have reference books so the public has access to information that might otherwise be cost prohibitive to own, and then slam Cox because the information contained therein is not worth anymore than $5? Come on. You could have probably gotten away with going to the library to read Hill's book also and saved the $90 as well. Is there $90 worth of new info in Hill's book? An Earl catalog, originally $5, now gets $50-$100. Does it have $100 worth of info? Of course not. Is it a collectable. Of course it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted July 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Everything is collectable. Thompson related anyway. Thanks for the info about Mr. Cox everyone. Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantpanda4 Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Artie, I is interesting that you mention Libraries. I went to search for the Cox book at our library. Nothing listed under TSMG, Cox, Thompson gun, etc. So I just looked for Machine gun. Still NOTHING! Damn PC libraries. Not to be outdone, I asked for them to locate it and get it for me on the inter-library loan program (supposedly encompasses all of the Midwest...). After a month, nothing. Two months, they finally said no one who had the book was willing to loan it out! What? What is the loan program all about, anyway? My last chance is the state library in Lansing. No answer yet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecondAmend Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Arthur, et al., With all due respect, in no way did I slam Mr. Cox, nor did I denigrate his book. The book is an interesting collector item, but I am a shooter not a serious collector. To me it is not worth $300. To others it may be and more power to you all. I did not say Mr. Cox's book was not worth more than $5, I said the $5 I spent saved me from spending $300 on a book that I do not feel is worth $300 after having read it. For the record, I will pay $50 for a Roger A. Cox, Thompson Submachine Gun, 1982 book with dust cover in fair to excellent condition. I will pay shipping. Also for the record, Mr. Cox's book does contain at least one serious plug for the machine gun sales firm he had at the time. GiantPanda4, Have a search done for ISBN 0943850002. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted July 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 I will pay $60 for the same and buy all that can be found. Thanks http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancer Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Jul 10 2004, 05:12 PM) Wow! That price tag gives me the teejee jeebies. Good one, Phil http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/tongue.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijive Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 The recent posts asking about Roger Cox brought back some memories of my dealings with him twenty years ago. I thought maybe a story about the kind of dealer Roger Cox was might be in order for the benefit of those that didn’t know him when he was selling Thompsons. I think he was a fair guy and was genuinely interested in Thompsons as well as making a profit from the sale of the guns. I purchased a New York marked “L†drum from Roger in about 1984. When my check arrived he was out of town so he had his father select one of the drums for sale and had him ship it to me. I didn’t specify that I wanted a particular model drum, such as a serial numbered specimen, but just thought I was buying a standard model New York marked drum. My choice was based on price at the time because I couldn’t afford the serial numbered models he had for sale. In retrospect, the prices were cheap compared to today’s prices. When the drum arrived, I was surprised to find it was a later Worcester made drum with the WIND TO 9 CLICKS in a semi-circle on the front cover. According to Roger’s book this was a scare variation, so I was pleased with the purchase although it had some noticeable pitting on the edges of the body. I wasn’t that well versed with the various drum models at the time but was happy to have an original New York drum with interesting markings. In fact, the drum had been roll stamped twice with the WIND TO 9 CLICKS instructions and the second set of markings was partially covered by the riveted on face plate. I thought this was pretty cool since I didn’t see any pictures of New York drums with two sets of markings in any of the Thompson literature. About a week after the drum arrived I received a call from Roger asking if I was happy with the drum. I detected a slight sense of urgency in his voice when he explained that his father had sent me the wrong drum and he was concerned that I wouldn’t be satisfied due to the pitting present on the finish. Maybe it was my suspicious nature, but I felt that he was interested in exchanging the drum for a different model due to its unique markings. I suspected that he wanted the drum for his own collection or was interested in selling it for more than I paid for it. He asked if I would be interested in returning it for a drum with a nicer finish and I declined stating I was happy with the transaction. He made another attempt to convince me that he would make the purchase right with the substitution of a nicer drum and when I again declined he dropped the matter wishing me good luck with it. I believed at the time and still do that he obviously realized the unique nature of the drum. It was a factory mistake that may have been one-of-a-kind or maybe one of just a few drums that were double stamped one day before the mistake was caught. He made a polite attempt to get the drum back but didn’t cajole, threaten or otherwise try to convince me to return the drum. He struck me as a genuinely nice guy that chalked up his father’s error as part of the price of doing business. The drum was featured in the Thompson Collector’s newsletter a couple of years ago and I believe the issue is available on-line if anyone is interested in seeing pictures of it. I sold the drum shortly after the article was published to a noted Thompson collector where it now resides in a collection more befitting its unique markings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkr Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 I believe Cox is a convicted felon which is why he practices law in Mass. the only place that will allow a convicted felon to practice law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftc3906 Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 (edited) That is my understanding as well. I believe that the conviction was BATF related. Perhaps that is the reason why Cox has dropped out of the TSMG scene and why he is reluctant to discuss the subject. Edited July 12, 2004 by ftc3906 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye_Joe Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Found this listing: 1 Amazon.co.uk [united States] Hardcover, ISBN: 0943850002 Publisher: Law Enforcement Ordinance Co, 1982 Good condition Ships airmail from U.S.A. Arrives within 10-15 working days. Money-back guarantee.; Usually ships in 1-2 business days $735.04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Jr Posted July 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 What did he do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 He got caught up in a snafu with ATF on some importation documents. I believe the issue was the country and/or date of manufacture of some guns he was bringin in from South American somewhere. Tragedy was they were not even Thompsons. He was convicted and I believe served time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 smoker Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 He was heavily `scrutinized `after he took the ATF to court and won... he fought for the right to sell NFA in Georgia when the state said he could and the ATF said it was against Georgia state law...blazed the way and paid dearly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 I remember reading about that too. For sure don't want to get anyone at ATF pissed off for doing something legal now would we?! I am glad he blazed a path. Doubt anyone would try something like that now. Too much risk to have valuable collections siezed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 smoker Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Amen!...to that...however the atmosphere in the ATF seems to be much different today than 20-25 years ago...i.e. Tman and his informative posts...recent transfers I`ve gone thru...very smooth...compliance audit...right now,no complaints... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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