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WWII Savage Arms M2HB SN Range


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#1 fifthmdec

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 07:11 PM

I have The Browning MachineGun IV. It only references M2 conversions to M2 Basic and AC SNs. Our M2 SN range is in the 589 thousand range.

Recently, we received our FOIA request to see when the M2s first registration into the NFRTR. Out of 15 pagers released, two were redacted in full. Manufacturer is listed in the NFRTR as Browning Arms Corp. Savage was one of the WWII contractors for the M2.

SN 569308 is last one listed on the production figures dated 8/17/42. SN 900416 begins 10/29/42. Also an AC basic MG.

Has anyone had a similar experience with their FOIA paperwork or have any information on the ground model SNs?

Thinking about calling the Disclosure office to try and get an answer, from one of the two liason officials. Perhaps, I can get an original registration date...

Thanks

Edited by fifthmdec, 18 December 2017 - 12:32 PM.

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#2 Black River Militaria CII

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:25 PM

Copy of original registration should’ve been included with the FOIA pack of copies. That is critical and valuable information and one of the main reasons for doing FOIA. Check through the copies carefully earliest dated form.
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#3 fifthmdec

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 11:22 AM

The original registration was not in the package. The earliest date was a Form 4 transfer dated in 1980. All of the requests that I have made, contain a copy, RIP, with the date and form number visible.

This is the first one that did not contain the original registration form/date.

Two of the forms were redacted in full or RIF...


Edited by fifthmdec, 18 December 2017 - 02:27 PM.

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#4 fifthmdec

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 11:25 AM

Note, I was initially given one FOIA number, then given a second one for the same request. Perhaps, more information is pending. I have had this happen before. I received information on the same firearm, in two separate packets.

In some, I have only received the original registration information and nothing else...
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#5 fifthmdec

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 06:17 PM

SN was actually, 1589297, from the factory during WW II, as an M2 AC Basic. Registered in the NFRTR as 589297. The 1 on the receiver was eliminated, by the hole that is drilled on the RS of the receiver. This seems to be a process that occurred during the arsenal rebuilding, refurbish process?

I thought that I read that somewhere over the years. Not really sure....
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#6 fifthmdec

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 03:36 PM

A few photos...

 

 

Attached Files


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#7 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 10:02 PM

I have the same gun that is an original ground gun in the 900K range just a few hundred above what the starting number is.  Mine does not have the hole which looks to be for adjusting headspace.   The hole was punched before it went into the registry since you are correct that the real number has a "1" in the front.  This one is the nicest of three I've had and doesn't look to have been rebuilt.  I've not done an FOIA on any of my stuff so I can't help you there, but the guy I think this one came from was maybe only the second owner and he had it a long time, likely 50's maybe 60's, then I got it.  Probably doesn't help much?
?


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#8 fifthmdec

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 01:29 AM

I appreciate your sharing. I did receive a call from the ATF Disclosure Office today. Just missed it, I have left another message.

I hope, that I can get some of the information, that did not accompany the original FOIA packet.

This is the first packet that did not include the the original date that the weapon was registered. They did Redact in Full 2 pages from the request. There is a process that one can do if one is not satisfied with the results. Trying the easiest way first.

I have done several FOIA requests the last couple of years. Takes the guesswork out of what you have.

The turnaround lately has been 60-90 days. Theyre doing a much better job...

Will share what I find...
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#9 MG08

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 04:44 PM

I have a high standard M2 (currently an M2HB.)  It is listed by SN in Dolf's book as being originally in the M2 Aircraft basic order in 1943.  I would assume that at some point it was converted to an M2HB.  I have not done a FOIA request on it, but may have to do so just to see what I get.   The gun shoot wonderfully and is my wife's favorite car blasting gun.


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#10 fifthmdec

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 09:37 PM

Update on FOIA request:

Savage M2 SN 589297 1968 Amnesty Registered.

I ended up filing a second FOIA Request through the USDOJ, filed as an appeal for more information. To my satisfaction, the RIP Form 4467 showed the dates of 11/201968 filed and approved on 1/21/1969.

Well worth the time...
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