New member,New owner,New problem?

[vanvock]

Hello everyone & thx to the Mod for letting me in. I just became the (not so proud) owner of a Kahr TM1C (alum receiver) & thought I'd post my experience so far. This is my 1st time buying a gun just for fun & 1st time to need to send one back, unless I can get input here to avoid that. Out of box QC was spotty, the grips were loose with pistol over into the mag release lever & foregrip mounting hole not drilled through completely so it splintered the wood when the screw was installed & the swivel recess was too deep binding the swivel, it also doesn't fit the barrel profile & is not flush to the receiver (maybe for a finned barrel). 1st firing was Fed red box AE 230 ball, 100 rnds. Problems were jams mostly with shell at 45d angle & boltface stuck in groove @ base. I found some very deep primer strikes & gouges @ base of feed ramp from case mouth & a small chip on the outside of the boltface but no deformation. 1st cleaning = firing pin pilot burred & had to file to get it out, also found thread locker & rear sight screws dragging on bolt. I cleaned up the feed ramp burrs lubed with Rem oil & Lucas grease like I do an M1A & tried another 100 of same ammo. Same results but this time found a primer blown out & some stoppage from not going fully into battery. The mag catch rides against the left side but mag all snap in, have 2 other T11's one of which fits up tight but they all seem to cock a little. Are the feed lips supposed to go all the way up to the receiver? I cleaned again. 3rd firing was 50 rnds of Rem UMC 230 ball,50 of Win white box 230 ball & 50 of 185 cone & 50 Speer gold dot 230 JHP. Same jams & deep strikes with 1 stove pipe, a melted primer, a blown out one, & a surprise double tap or tri-burst with the Fed ball(haven't seen anything on that one yet). Maybe I hit the right combo for bump fire but I doubt it. I notice what looks to me like excessive discoloring on the outside of the cases like blowback on 1 side, is this normal for these? Sometimes the bolt would lock back with 1 rnd in mag. Firing pin protrusion out of battery looks excessive to me but I read a post that said it was by design to prevent full auto somehow. There is a pin in the barrel part of the bolt that seems to be for a stop notch in the pin but it doesn't reach it, it will hit the receiver with shoulder in the square part when in battery. It seems to me to act like an overpressure problem? Headspace? From what I see for the deep primer strikes it would have to drop the hammer BEFORE getting to full battery. Any ideas? Sorry for the long post, just trying to get my ducks in a row before calling Kahr. Thanks, Mike

 

[ppgcowboy]

The coloring on the case is normal in my case. I would call them otherwise.

[58healeybn6]

If it is a new gun, call Auto-Ordnance and tell them your problems; especially that it double/triple tapped. They don’t like to hear that. They should give you a pre-paid number to return it. Some of their customer service guys are jerks and some are pretty decent. If the gun is used, all bets are off. I personally am not a fan of aluminum guns, but that’s just me. Good luck.

[vanvock]

It's new

[dokkerdam]

i have an aluminum Kahr Thompson "pistol". I don't have the feed and firing problems yours has (yet) but do have gouging on the ramp from rounds scraping up towards the chamber. Don't know how long I'll wait unitl I let Kahr know about it but have about 600 rounds through the (new) gun so far.

dokker

[vanvock]

I cleaned mine up with a small jewelers file with a bit of radius & it pretty much stopped but for a small spot on the far right of the ramp. That didn't seem to make much if any difference with the feeding issues however.

[Oldtrooper]

The burst firing sounds like a disconnector/sear problem maybe.

[vanvock]

I think so too, I'm going to rma it back to Kahr. ppgcowboy said the case discoloring was normal to him so that's probably no indicator but the burring on the firing pin pilot returned which to me may indicate weak springs ( I hope not, hard enough to pull now) or maybe overpressure (but with Win white box?)

[58healeybn6]

I doubt very much if it’s weak springs. I have the EZ-pull springs on mine and it runs fine. I can pull the actuator back with one finger. Have not had any problem with that at all. For what it’s worth, I load my own 45 ACP, and I run a reduced load through my 1927. Accuracy is very good and recoil is light. All I need is enough recoil to retract the bolt all the way and to seat a new round. Of course, if you still have the warrantee in effect, you probably want to keep it stock. My personal opinion is that the very heavy forward slamming of the bolt against the receiver with the factory springs can’t be doing it any good.

[vanvock]

I understand, what's confusing me is the burring on the firing pin pilot as if it's slamming back too hard as well. It's where it goes into the bolt.

[58healeybn6]

I’m not sure I understand what you mean by the “firing pin pilot”? Do you mean the hole in the bolt that the firing pin goes through? If so, could the pin be slightly bent or perhaps a bit too long? The pierced primers would seem to indicate this plus the heavy firing pin spring would exacerbate this. How much of the pin protrudes from the bolt when the front part of the firing pin body is flush with the face of the bolt body? As you probably know, the inside face of the receiver acts as the stop for the forward motion of the firing pin. Regardless, if you send it back to AutoOrdnance with a list of your issues, they may fix them as well as the double tap. My first 1927 had a multi-fire issue and they fixed it.

[vanvock]

It's the pin that sticks out the rear of the receiver that the recoil spring guide & firing pin spring register to. When the bolt is fully forward the firing pin protrusion appears to be normal from what I've learned here but seems a bit long to me. When the bolt is back it comes way out which I've read in a post here (this forum) is by design. The depth of the bad strikes makes me think it is firing out of battery since as you say when the bolt is fully forward it is limited. It will be up to Kahr to do some post sale quality control but I would like to know for myself what's going on in there. Did they say what the problem was, what they did to fix it? Thanks

Edited November 2, 2017 by vanvock

[58healeybn6]

OK, I see what you mean now. I looked at my parts break down in my owner’s manual and I see that the pin is labeled “firing pin pilot”. I can’t think of any reason that it should peen either. I have no evidence of that on mine. However, as I said earlier, I run a reduced load through mine, so I would not have a heavy recoil anyway. I did some tests a year or so age and posted the results; I did some chronograph tests with factory ammo and the velocities were greater than a 1911 because of the increased barrel length. With the reduced load EZ-Pull springs, I wanted less recoil. That being said, I can’t see any reason for your peening unless, as you said, it’s firing out of battery, but even then, it shouldn’t have that effect. Maybe just crap steel. To answer your other question, no, they did not give any explanation. Probably don’t want to admit it.

[vanvock]

Since mine is aluminum I can't use the soft springs, I wonder if they should have a buffer from jump street. I don't reload, could you recommend some lighter factory loads I might try?

[58healeybn6]

Sorry, since I reload I know by factory ammunition. You could probably look on the web and see if there is anything out there. Try Midway USA.

[vanvock]

They got mine Nov 15 & I got It back Friday. The part swapper's note said they replaced the bolt, firing pin & pilot & "modified" the magazines, lubed & tested ok. I could not detect any modification to the mag's but the bolt now has the pinned extractor. They did nothing about the mag catch pushing out & riding the side of the hole. I loaded the 3 with 25 rnds of Win white box & Fed AE to give it a try. It jammed at the bottom of the ramp on the 3rd round. The rest of that mag went fine. Half way through the second mag it failed to return to battery due to a blown out primer that got in the way. The rest of that one & the 3rd ran fine. I split the remaining 25 rnds of the hundred on hand in the first 2 mags that had a problem with no further issue. Of the 85 cases recovered I did not see any deep strikes like before except for the 1 blowout they all looked normal. The eject pattern seemed to be less scattered. I didn't check every rnd on loading so I guess there could have been a high primer. Maybe the new parts wearing in? The jury is still out on this one. I guess I'll have to address the mag catch issue myself. I don't want to send it back again. I'll call them Tuesday & maybe they'll send me a new catch & spring.

[vanvock]

I got the mag catch issue fixed & put another hundred of the white box through it today. Of the 96 cases recovered there were 2 pierced primers, all others looked good. All 3 mags were fully loaded & the first ran empty with no issue. Among the other 2 were 2 FTB's & 2 or 3 jams on the bottom of the ramp.

 

Should I be using only mil spec ammo?

Edited January 7, 2018 by vanvock

[vanvock]

Just got the used GI 30 rnd mag, cleaned it up & filed it for a tight fit up to the receiver. Still same problems. I put 200 rnds through it today & of the 195 recovered found 3 pierced primers & a few deep hits. I tried holding it by the mag instead of the foregrip & had no failures. While that's great it just aint right. What does that indicate? I noticed that when it fails to go fully into battery it hangs up just short & I can't even push it forward with the charging handle. I have to pull it back & let it slam then it goes all the way.