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Confusing Transfer Errors


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And I went on a roller coaster... (Lone Ranger is accurate on that!)

 

Just kidding Lone Ranger. Your posts are invaluable to the board. However, something is squirrely, and I am glad that it is most likely newbies in training. I am thrilled to have them. Getting too old to outlast these 8 month transfers. I get older, can buy more stuff, but it eats what little life I have left.

Any chance of getting the best correct wording pinned to the site so we do not all make the same mistake of simply copying the last form four, or using actual measurements on the NFA items we are registering?

Sandman1957

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The form you get back is the only one they'll issue you . If you wait till it's back and then correct the info , it will never be correct on your form. If I have a form with errors ( and I had one with everything about the gun wrong except the serial number ) , I correct the errors on my form. I also send in a copy of the old form , with the errors circled in red , and a letter explaining the errors , both why they're wrong and referances to where they can go to prove it to themselves . It does not seem to slow the process at all ( when yours comes up , it's up ) and has not resulted in a kick back . They want the records to be correct , and I want the paperwork in my hand to match my gun.

Chris

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Why spend the effort to correct the form and make waves and God forbid extra work for them, their just matching forms like robots.

You give them way to much credit. They don't care if it's correct,,just so it's same gun that's transferring.

I do mine to match exactly,, down to the dotted I & crossed T.

 

I know,,,I'm getting a lot jaded in my old age,

Darryl

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Because when a local LE looks at the form , maybe not sure exactly what he's looking at , I don't want any questions of " Why is your gun this when the form sez that ? " .

 

My one form with all the errors was a M9A1 Bazooka . Said made by US GOVT but said GE right on it. Model number said M9 while M9A1 was stamped on it . Bbl length and OAL was several inches off . Bore was listed at 2.5 rather than 2.36 . Didn't feel like trying to explain all this while standing on the side of the road some dark and rainy night with an unknown LEO who might be just a tad nervous with me.

 

Also , look at all the grips here about when the registry is wrong , but some are saying " let's keep it wrong ." Doesn't that seem strange ?

Chris

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I've been checked lots of times by LEO's and range officers, they never whipped out a micrometer or tape measure.

As a matter of fact,,they didn't even verify the serial numbers. Just looked at the transfer form and my name and FFL

and stated "now that's a cool gun"

Most are just government drones,,nothing more and nice guys to boot not looking to make waves.

My most detailed checks were by ATF agents and they only compared serial numbers.

 

Most people are not as anal / strange as we collectors are.

-Darryl

 

Somehow, I can't get the normal font back, which one is it?

Edited by RoscoeTurner
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I have been checked once, by a range officer, and all he said was that my paperwork was ten years out of date. I thanked him for pointing that out and that I would make sure to get it updated. Wadda maroon....

I've been checked lots of times by LEO's and range officers, they never whipped out a micrometer or tape measure.

As a matter of fact,,they didn't even verify the serial numbers. Just looked at the transfer form and my name and FFL

and stated "now that's a cool gun"

Most are just government drones,,nothing more and nice guys to boot not looking to make waves.

My most detailed checks were by ATF agents and they only compared serial numbers.

 

Most people are not as anal / strange as we collectors are.

-Darryl

 

Somehow, I can't get the normal font back, which one is it?

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I don't see any discrepancies on my markings with previous forms. The last owner listed the weapon as M-1. I noticed that the A1 had been struck on the receiver. I always assumed this was done by the military, so I hope that is not a concern. When I give the barrel measurement, should I also include the threads? Of course the barrel is exactly 10" when not counting the 1/2" threads. However, previous forms list it as 10 1/2". The ATF letter said not to use previous forms to determine length but measure directly from the weapon, so I'm a little confused.

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The threads are on the bbl , right ? You measure from the face of the closed bolt to the tip of the bbl. If there is an easily removed comp , flash hider , muzzle brake on it , it is not counted. If it is welded on or blind pinned , it is considered a part of the bbl.

Chris

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Chris- Good to know, mine are ACs and measure 12.0 " and that's what's listed on the forms.

 

Thanks !

The threads are on the bbl , right ? You measure from the face of the closed bolt to the tip of the bbl. If there is an easily removed comp , flash hider , muzzle brake on it , it is not counted. If it is welded on or blind pinned , it is considered a part of the bbl.

Chris

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I hope I didn't mess up a transfer on Form 4 by doing the right thing. The calibre said 223 on the old transfer paper,but the receiver said 55.6 ,so doing

the right thing I put both Calibre 55.6 / 233 on the new transfer paper, I just sent it in two weeks ago.

O well ,I'll just have to wait.

Tino

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Things like that really don't matter much on some firearms . An AR15 / M16 lower with an asortment of uppers in different bbl lengths and calibers is one example . there is just not enough room to list all the possible combos and they can change over time. If you have an M1 carbine and both a folding and regular stock is another example. While .223 and 5.56 are different , to most they are the same ( although I think 55.6 may be much larger ) .

Chris

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My saga continues. After submitting, on April 2, a letter requesting copies of my approved Form 4's (approved on Feb. 24 and still MIA) I recieved a copy on one but not the other last Thursday (mailed to me on the 12th). I included all the info needed i.e. both serial numbers, who purchased from, the approval date etc.in the letter. They received the letter on April 4th. I'll bet they tell me they need seperate letters?

 

As far as changing anything, I'm with darrylta, I'm not changing a thing and would only request changes after it's in my name. I understand my copies wouldn't reflect the change from Thoimpson to Colt but I will have additional paperworkreflection the correction for any potential buyer (If I would ever want to sell it). Stay tuned !!! Chuck

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Remember when a transfer form is submitted there are 2 copies...sometimes the error is on the one that remains with the NFA branch.I have also had forms rejected because I included "Inc." with my trade name...when I have previous forms with one or the other listed or both..and all 3 examples approved by the same examiner... :wacko:

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TD:

 

Sorry for the delay, been on the road for a few days. I will refrain from further commentary at the moment - there has been loads of internet commentary by people who lacked even a basic understanding of the case and no need for me to add to it at the moment. If you know anyone or can possibly lay hands on a trasnscript, you would probably find some good reading. Trick is, if the fed system works like the state it will be pricey for someone because while the information is public, the court reporter would have to be paid for the transcript. Not sure if it applies federally or if you could get a copy from the court for free or printing cost, etc? If my feeble mind can remember in the coming week I will try asking around. If I get any useful info, will post on here.

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Hi Folks,

 

It might be fun to do a FOIA request on one of the guns that BATF indicates has no BBL or OAL. My guess is that they are listed and are looking for alterations that may have been done to the gun over the years.

 

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I attempted to 5320.20 a gun and BATF responded it was sold 10 months earlier to another individual! Well, I'd not sold it and it was sitting right in front of me.

 

Interesting thread,

 

Grasshopper

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The Lone Ranger,

Thanks for your feedback. I am not interested enough to pay for the transcript but I agree it would be good reading! It appears whatever happened was lawful and proper or this prosecution would not have left the Assistant US Attorney's office. If only everyone understood that Internet chatter usually has very little basis of fact. Sworn testimony or statements from those directly involved without an agenda is always the best source documentation. But I do agree the chatter sounds better at times!

 

What sparked my interest is having reviewed a lot of redacted ATF forms provided to machine gun owners from FOIA requests. I understand the reason for the redactions but those aside, there is still a lot of history one can learn about their machine gun from this type of documentation. I have one example where I believe the machine gun was properly registered by the manufacturer and later re-registered by ATF officials years later with a slightly different serial number. If my suspicions are correct, there are two registrations on the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record for one machine gun.

 

All good stuff!

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