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ATF Form 4 Processing


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Tiz,

I bet well over half those in the senate and congress don't even realize that it is legally possible for you to own a machine gun.

When the day comes that they become aware of this little fact, they will spend their time making such ownership illegal.

And you won't find any friends on either side of the aisle.

Jim C

I agree completely and we don't want anyone to think that an appropriation of money is for the streamlining of class III form processing. Most don't know which end of a gun a bullet comes out of let alone have any clue regarding class III ownership which is fine. I am attempting to point out that the ATF & FBI systems which are 1980"s tech and do not interact with each other, are used for a multitude of things with regard to crimes and investigations of all types. A system upgrade would benefit forms processing as well without them realizing it. It just has to be promoted as a law enforcement tool that is in dire need of funding, and leave machine gun ownership completely out of the conversation. The bottle neck for form 4 processing occurs when the ATF hands off the forms to the FBI for fingerprint and background investigation which is a more or less manual process because their systems don't talk to each other.

Edited by Tiz
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What i still never understand is why a C&R doesnt transfer quick just like to a dealer....or if you buy multiple guns in a 1-2 year period--why your not fast tracked....seems like many guys have a few purchases a year...why go through the same lengthy process so many times....danger wise it makes no sense....just wasted paper work....if a guy owns a few FA, then buys 5 more is he more dangerous? if he is Chuck Norris he can only shoot 2 uzi's at once....owning 10 he is no dangerous than owning 2......the process is designed to slow things down intentionally.

 

id propose that if you have had a transfer in the past 2 years that your transfers get fast tracked to a different inspector that looks it over and passed you in 5 minutes...

 

not do the same lengthy transfer process 10x in a year if someone buys 10 nfa items

 

i see nfa tracker had its last dot for 5-1-18.....so lets see if it moves forward any tomorrow....probably still a few in the mail coming for someone.

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What i still never understand is why a C&R doesnt transfer quick just like to a dealer....or if you buy multiple guns in a 1-2 year period--why your not fast tracked....seems like many guys have a few purchases a year...why go through the same lengthy process so many times....danger wise it makes no sense....just wasted paper work....if a guy owns a few FA, then buys 5 more is he more dangerous? if he is Chuck Norris he can only shoot 2 uzi's at once....owning 10 he is no dangerous than owning 2......the process is designed to slow things down intentionally.

 

id propose that if you have had a transfer in the past 2 years that your transfers get fast tracked to a different inspector that looks it over and passed you in 5 minutes...

 

not do the same lengthy transfer process 10x in a year if someone buys 10 nfa items

 

i see nfa tracker had its last dot for 5-1-18.....so lets see if it moves forward any tomorrow....probably still a few in the mail coming for someone.

True, it makes no sense, but from what I understand it is the way the regulations are written, that each transfer must stand alone no "fast passes". I hold an 01 FFL as well as a C&R, used to be an SOT, and that makes absolutely no difference. It seems that what you suggest makes too much sense. If all the info was in the system and the systems interacted with information from past purchases the work loads would be reduced instead of covering the same ground over and over again, but that's bureaucracy at it finest.

Edited by Tiz
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Efile 1-7 days

 

Used to be 2-3 months before efile

 

Why not efile from an individual to a dealer the same way?

 

Why is that 2-3 months still. Danger is no different than dealer to dealer.

 

 

They made changes to allow efile. Cant they make other changes ?

 

Would be nice to have a C&R nfa license . Treat you like a dealer just like non nfa guns.

Edited by huggytree
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I wonder what the percentage is for folks who waited for a Form 4 transfer and passed away? I think about this at times and told my wife and son the name of the dealer I use, and what weapons I am waiting on for tax stamp (3). I feel bad for folks who have spent hard earned money, waited, but never got to enjoy their new weapons.

 

I thought it sucked when I had to wait 3 months for a tax stamp when W Bush was President. I get it with suppressors being so popular now and ATF not being able to keep up with the total number of NFA items but this just sucks. Also I believe there is no actual time limit for a tax stamp to process. So you could wait, 1, 2,3 ++++ years and no one cares or better-----you should not own one anyway, not going to help you attitude from the public/government.

 

Okay now I feel better after venting......well not really.

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Tiz,

I bet well over half those in the senate and congress don't even realize that it is legally possible for you to own a machine gun.

When the day comes that they become aware of this little fact, they will spend their time making such ownership illegal.

And you won't find any friends on either side of the aisle.

Jim C

. I agree Edited by mohawk64
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Perhaps we should be asking the bigger question as to how government got so big as to bring private transactions of existing personal property to a halt. They are effectively tasked with collecting a commerce based tax on an existing item, no different than the tax on alcohol, tobacco, etc. If Americans were told they'd have to wait until the shutdown was over to by a bottle of gentlemen Jack because the vendor wasn't able to process and affix the tax stamp there would (or I guess was) a revolution. 30-60 days was tolerable to allow for processing and mailing, etc. back in the day, 6+ months for years now shows intention to limit our rights, plain and simple. Great basis for a lawsuit, but the only thing slower than NFA branch is federal court.

 

Most of what we are required to do today was made up by ATF, and not laid out in the original NFA, therefore they have the ability to streamline and make changes as well as adding labor to rectify their poor performance and for years now have CHOSEN not do so. Since there is no public outcry.....because most of us are not "public", virtually nothing will be done to alleviate the problem. They have shifted priority to SOT transfers, thereby lengthening personal transfers, but averaged you only process so may transactions with the same amount of people.

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we need a special interest group since the NRA isnt it.

 

Silencerco would be the biggest beneficiary of this streamlining.....they should start a NFA special interest group...if silencers were off the NFA things would fly through..

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we need a special interest group since the NRA isnt it.

 

Silencerco would be the biggest beneficiary of this streamlining.....they should start a NFA special interest group...if silencers were off the NFA things would fly through..

NFATCA

Roger that. NFATCA is that group. Join.

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I don't see the NFATCA being a group I would be interested in joining after speaking with a couple folks from there regarding some transfer issues. Believe it or not, they weren't really up to speed. Their interest seems to lie more as a trade group with dealers than with individual NFA owners which was the basis of how they began and who they recruited back in the day. I know one of the board members pretty well and he's never encouraged me to join and I can't think of any other serious collectors I know that are members (that I am aware of anyhow)? Could be I'm not worthy as well?

 

Maybe silencerco should be encouraged since their customer base seems to be large and they'd have a great mailing list to start with, much bigger than the nfatca who has no mailing list nor necessarily a vested financial interest with individual owners? Interesting to note none of the current board members at nfatca do any serious volume of NFA transfers to speak of?

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Tiz,

I bet well over half those in the senate and congress don't even realize that it is legally possible for you to own a machine gun.

When the day comes that they become aware of this little fact, they will spend their time making such ownership illegal.

And you won't find any friends on either side of the aisle.

Jim C

Just today I was firing my HK MP-5 clone at the range and one employee was not aware that it could be fired FA with a registered sear (trip) installed. I was shocked.

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I had a transfer during the Obama shutdown years ago, the NFA branch was closed for Form 4 transfers then as well. When they did open back up after several weeks the transfer time was only extended basically the same amount of time as the shutdown. It didn't grown the transfer time to 3 years over 3 weeks. The biggest slow down at NFA was the huge amount of suppressor applications the last time I talked to them, your mileage may vary....

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I bought a transferable and later that day heard the government had shut down. No action taken on the dealer-to-dealer efile, and we're now going on three weeks.

 

I would think there wouldn't be any sales transferred dealer-to-dealer given the current stalled processing. Maybe a Form 4 which is a long wait anyway.

 

Who wants to spend the money, and then not be able to get the item to your dealer. I would think this would kill the already soft NFA market.

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And to Jeff at nfatca....I worked as an Electronics Tech for the USPS for 30 years and I know your pain!

Every computer we ever received as new was obsolete way before anyone ever ordered it for us!

Spit and a prayer is a fairly accurate description too...we had an old Digital PDP-11 serial number 7.....and a friend saw one in the Smithsonian from NASA that had a serial number in the 300 range!

We were still using ours for letter sorting machine scheme changes, tube technology and all!I

Edited by john
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Both of my cans took darn year a year to the day. 7 months would have been a gift but I have known to think it terms of 12 months for a while. My understanding is the first missed paycheck is on 1/14/19. I doubt this will be fixed by then but there are a helluva lot of folks out there that do not realize that this has happened before

During the Ronald Reagan administration, there were a total of eight shutdowns lasting four days or less=max 32 days

During the Bill Clinton administration, there were two full government shutdowns during 1995 &1996 lasting five and 21 days=26 days

During the Barack Obama administration, a 16-day government shutdown occurred during October 2013 =16 days

During the Donald Trump administration: a three-day shutdown during January 2018; again overnight on February 9, 2018,

 

This current one will be longer, I think a lot longer-Sorry about everyone’s form 4’s but we need a wall and next much better port security to stop the Fetanayl(sp) which is killing more people that firearms (including suicides!!) Take out the suicides ad just go with murders and vehicle fatalities and I think still under the Fent ODs

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