Grease Gunner Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) Rock Island Flyer Says that an Excellent 1921 Fully Documented TSMGThat Killed Pretty Boy Floyd is For Sale in the Nov30th-Dec 2 Auction Since The Ruby Gun that killed Oswald Fetched $220k My prediction is $500,000 Edited October 22, 2018 by Grease Gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawk64 Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 I always thought he was shot with a bolt action rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Chester Smith claims to have wounded PBF with a 32-20 Winchester.Thought I remember Melvin Purvis finishing him off with a hand gun.Wish Sandy was here.Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffen Und Bier Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) Who is Pretty Boy Floyd? Is he a rapper like Machine Gun Kelly? And remember kids, Excellent, documented Colt Model 1921 Class III/NFA fully automatic Thompson SMG's don't kill people, people kill people (and infamous and notorious 1920's era gangster/criminals and rap artists). Edited October 23, 2018 by Waffen Und Bier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full auto 45 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Who is Pretty Boy Floyd? Is he a rapper like Machine Gun Kelly? Yes, yes he (it) is. Pretty Boy Floyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Mills Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) Interesting, especially the projected price. Edited October 23, 2018 by Ron Mills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawk64 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Wasn't that Nelson that shot it out in Barrington?? I thought Floyd was killed in eastern Ohio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83Baron Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 I always heard PBF was fatally wounded at long range as well. Buying the gun not the story is always the safest route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Mills Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Wasn't that Nelson that shot it out in Barrington?? I thought Floyd was killed in eastern OhioYes. Brain f**t on my part in that paragraph. Mea culpa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 I don't believe he was dispatched with a Thompson. The picture I saw of him on the slab appeared to show him shot through the lungs from the left side of the chest about mid bicep area with a possible exit to the right side as being indicated by people present in the video. His front chest and abdomen appeared to be hole free, where we would assume someone with a machinegun would stitch up a bad man laying on the ground, he would be a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Chopper Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 This is from Helmer and Mattix's book "The Complete Public Enemy Almanac" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Chopper Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 I do find it unusual that a firearm that belonged to the Department of Justice, would make it into the civilian market. Possibly Special Agent Smith was awarded the Thompson for some reason? Would like to read the documentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Hollywood says at least four TSMGs, 1911 .45, and assorted shotguns took out PBF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim c 351 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Arthur,There are those who have wondered if that movie was 100 % factual.Jim C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawk64 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Seems a little hokey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grease Gunner Posted October 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) The TSMG was not from FBU but Purvis Borrowed them and then returned them to the PD where they sat for decades. It seems to be a story thats not verifiable.. From Rock Island "his is an excellent example of an original, fully automatic late production Colt M1921 Thompson Submachine gun that, as noted above, was actually 1 of 2 documented Thompson Submachine guns that helped gun down the notorious 1930s era gangster Pretty Boy Floyd in 1934. This serial number and accounting is documented on page 51 of the book "The Thompson Submachine Gun" by Roger Cox. Staying on the move for over a year, Floyd slipped through a number of ambushes until his luck ran out near East Liverpool, Ohio, in October of 1934. On the road with Adam Richetti, another man accused of being at the massacre, Floyd's party crashed their car in a dense fog disabling the vehicle. Attempting to hide out while their female companions arranged a tow, the gangsters were spotted, resulting in a shootout with local law, Richetti was captured, the local police chief took a bullet through his foot, and Floyd was on the run in the woods. From here, multiple sources confirm that A) a detachment of FBI men led by Melvin Purvis, himself famous for taking out Dillinger, arrived on the scene, the FBI men requisitioned two Thompson submachine guns, identified by serial number and including this very Tommy Gun, from the East Liverpool Police Department, and C) Pretty Boy Floyd caught a fatal case of lead poisoning from Purvis' team on October 22nd, 1934. From here, things get fuzzy. The FBI and local law enforcement have their own version of events, as do some of the participants. As the locals told it, one of their own, a retired lawman and decorated WWI marksman Chester Smith non-lethally dropped Floyd with 2 well aimed shots with a Winchester rifle, and when he got back up again the FBI opened up, putting the gangster down permanently. In later years, Smith gave his own version of events, in which Floyd didn't get back up; after his two shots, Purvis and his men closed distance on the incapacitated gangster, asked Floyd for a confession about Kansas, and when they were rebuffed, cut him down with one of their Thompsons on Purvis' direct order. The FBI version of events was that Purvis' team found Floyd without any local assistance, and proceeded to shoot him down when he tried to come at them with a .45 caliber pistol. After the event, Purvis' team returned the Thompson to the inventory of the East Liverpool Police Department, which kept the item in their inventory until 1974 when it was acquired by the Law Enforcement Ordnance Company and it later entered the collection of Tom Keefe in 1979 and then Buddy Oden in 1992. This particular machine gun is a very late production model as only 15,000 were manufactured in total with this one being serial number "14033". Almost all of them were later converted into the M1928A1 configuration. Like others say, Buy the gun not the story.....One thing is for certain. This was handled by FBU and it was fired in the encounter Grease Gunner 10/23/2018 Edited October 24, 2018 by Grease Gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Uzi Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 Be nice to have the gun due to the local tie but stupid prices will abound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANS Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 This serial number and accounting is documented on page 51 of the book "The Thompson Submachine Gun" by Roger Cox.the FBI men requisitioned two Thompson submachine guns, identified by serial number and including this very Tommy Gun, from the East Liverpool Police Department, and C) Pretty Boy Floyd caught a fatal case of lead poisoning from Purvis' team on October 22nd, 1934. From here, things get fuzzy. The FBI and local law enforcement have their own version of events, as do some of the participants. As the locals told it, one of their own, a retired lawman and decorated WWI marksman Chester Smith non-lethally dropped Floyd with 2 well aimed shots with a Winchester rifle, and when he got back up again the FBI opened up, putting the gangster down permanently. In later years, Smith gave his own version of events, in which Floyd didn't get back up; after his two shots, Purvis and his men closed distance on the incapacitated gangster, asked Floyd for a confession about Kansas, and when they were rebuffed, cut him down with one of their Thompsons on Purvis' direct order. The FBI version of events was that Purvis' team found Floyd without any local assistance, and proceeded to shoot him down when he tried to come at them with a .45 caliber pistol. Cox claims that Floyd was shot by two "police Model 1921ACs". This can be interpreted that either two officers of the ELPD fired them or that the FBI agents fired them. The former is unlikely, as the FBI report in #62-28915 mentions only two "machine guns" in the entire 8-man party (four ELPD, four FBI), and names Special Agents Hopton and McKee as the machine gunners. The latter is also unlikely, as the FBI by 22-OCT-1934 had considerable numbers of their own Thompsons -- and those were Model 1928AC Navys. The FBI files also do not mention that they had borrowed any weapons from the ELPD, as far as I can tell. I've found Cox's book to not be entirely accurate at times ... Herigstad refers to Cox and gives no more information. Interestingly, neither No. 6923 nor No. 14033 had been sold in Ohio until 26-JUL-1934, according to Federal Laboratories. This means they were either acquired by ELPD between late July and late October 1934, or, perhaps more likely, after that date. Meaning they were not actually used in the killing of Floyd. Which frankly makes more sense, since why would the FBI guys NOT bring their own Thompsons? And why would the ELPD give up its only two Thompsons to the FBI guys, forcing them to face the notoriously deadly Floyd with revolvers and lever-action carbines? The man had already killed a number of lawmen, one of them in a duel with a Thompson gun-armed former sheriff while Floyd himself had only a pistol ... I'd be happy to be surprised with contradicting information (I mean, it would be a historic artifact), but I fear this is yet another try to attach a famous name to a gun to increase its value. Cheers HANS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawk64 Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 I own the Thompson that supposedly could have shot at Dillinger's drunk brother in law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grease Gunner Posted October 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 This serial number and accounting is documented on page 51 of the book "The Thompson Submachine Gun" by Roger Cox.>the FBI men requisitioned two Thompson submachine guns, identified by serial number and including this very Tommy Gun, from the East Liverpool Police Department, and C) Pretty Boy Floyd caught a fatal case of lead poisoning from Purvis' team on October 22nd, 1934. From here, things get fuzzy. The FBI and local law enforcement have their own version of events, as do some of the participants. As the locals told it, one of their own, a retired lawman and decorated WWI marksman Chester Smith non-lethally dropped Floyd with 2 well aimed shots with a Winchester rifle, and when he got back up again the FBI opened up, putting the gangster down permanently. In later years, Smith gave his own version of events, in which Floyd didn't get back up; after his two shots, Purvis and his men closed distance on the incapacitated gangster, asked Floyd for a confession about Kansas, and when they were rebuffed, cut him down with one of their Thompsons on Purvis' direct order. The FBI version of events was that Purvis' team found Floyd without any local assistance, and proceeded to shoot him down when he tried to come at them with a .45 caliber pistol. Cox claims that Floyd was shot by two "police Model 1921ACs". This can be interpreted that either two officers of the ELPD fired them or that the FBI agents fired them. The former is unlikely, as the FBI report in #62-28915 mentions only two "machine guns" in the entire 8-man party (four ELPD, four FBI), and names Special Agents Hopton and McKee as the machine gunners. The latter is also unlikely, as the FBI by 22-OCT-1934 had considerable numbers of their own Thompsons -- and those were Model 1928AC Navys. The FBI files also do not mention that they had borrowed any weapons from the ELPD, as far as I can tell. I've found Cox's book to not be entirely accurate at times ... Herigstad refers to Cox and gives no more information. Interestingly, neither No. 6923 nor No. 14033 had been sold in Ohio until 26-JUL-1934, according to Federal Laboratories. This means they were either acquired by ELPD between late July and late October 1934, or, perhaps more likely, after that date. Meaning they were not actually used in the killing of Floyd. Which frankly makes more sense, since why would the FBI guys NOT bring their own Thompsons? And why would the ELPD give up its only two Thompsons to the FBI guys, forcing them to face the notoriously deadly Floyd with revolvers and lever-action carbines? The man had already killed a number of lawmen, one of them in a duel with a Thompson gun-armed former sheriff while Floyd himself had only a pistol ... I'd be happy to be surprised with contradicting information (I mean, it would be a historic artifact), but I fear this is yet another try to attach a famous name to a gun to increase its value. Cheers HANS Hans, Thanks for that...What you say makes more sense and RIA seems to really be playing up some hype to an event thats still cloudy after 85 years!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman1957 Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) Its all about $$$$, only takes a few guys in heat and bid it up. FWIW all my COLT TSMGs had verified Dillinger connections...they were made at the same place!!Run up the tab! Edited October 24, 2018 by Sandman1957 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Mills Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 All good points. Be it "cloudy" or sunny, RIA wants da money. They're hoping for buyers that have more money than sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
full auto 45 Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 Its all about $$$$, only takes a few guys in heat and bid it up. FWIW all my COLT TSMGs had verified Dillinger connections...they were made at the same place!!Run up the tab!Well, my West Hurley 1928 identifies as a Colt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_brock Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 All good points. Be it "cloudy" or sunny, RIA wants da money. They're hoping for buyers that have more money than sense...Those same buyers wont take time to seek out Herigstad or Cox books. Just read both and o struggle to see this concrete evidence that this gun killed PBF. Oh well, maybe someone in SC will buy it. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_brock Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 Its all about $$$$, only takes a few guys in heat and bid it up. FWIW all my COLT TSMGs had verified Dillinger connections...they were made at the same place!!Run up the tab!Well, my West Hurley 1928 identifies as a Colt.. Thats funny right there. After all its more important what one thinks it is, verses what the data shows to be true Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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