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Question Regarding Transfer of Thompson M1A1 - Update on C&R


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#1 Hopalong

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Posted 06 May 2020 - 01:26 PM

Hi folks,
 
I purchased an M1A1 that is owned by a gentleman out of state on a Form 5.  I spoke with a BATF call center person in order to find out what the seller has to do to send the gun to my FFL.
 
The BATF guy said the seller has to apply for a Form 4 transfer to a dealer in his state; that dealer would do a Form 3 transfer to my dealer; then I would apply for a Form 4 transfer from my dealer to me.
 
Does that sound correct?
 
Thanks,
 
Tim

Edited by Hopalong, 04 June 2020 - 03:23 PM.

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#2 hkg3k

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Posted 06 May 2020 - 01:43 PM

Nope...the current owner can transfer directly to your dealer on Form 4.  Then Form 4 transfer to you.


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#3 Sandman1957

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Posted 06 May 2020 - 03:41 PM

Another much better option would be for you to get a Curio and Relics license which does not take very long.  Less than 90 days.  Then the current out of state owner can transfer it directly to you with only one transfer time out period, and only one tax stamp.

It is very possible that the Thompson is a curio and relic.  Who is the maker of the Thompson. if it is Auto Ordnance, WWII timeframe, or West Hurley it is a Curio and Relic.

 

Post a few photos if you can and confirm who is the manufacturer.

 

Good luck and don't do two wait periods nor two tax stamps unless this Thompson is not C&R eligible.

 

Cheers,

Sandman1957


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#4 Hopalong

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Posted 06 May 2020 - 03:42 PM

Sandman

The gun is a Bridgeport.

Thanks,

Tim
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#5 Frank Iannamico

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Posted 06 May 2020 - 04:43 PM

The form 5 only allows a tax-free transfer to a relative of the deceased or law enforcement.

 

The seller can do a form 4 transfer directly to a C3 dealer in YOUR state.

  1. Do you have a curio and relic license? If so the seller can do a form 4 transfer directly to you…approximate wait 8 months one $200 tax.
  2. If you do not have a C&R or FFL the gun will have to be transferred to a dealer in your state. $200.00 transfer tax about 2-3 month wait.
  3. Then the dealer will form 4 transfer it to you, another $200.00 tax and 8 month wait

 

 I am assuming that the seller, stating “it’s on a form 5,” was not aware of the process.

 

Anytime a gun is on a form 4 a tax is due.

When a dealer has a gun in his inventory he can transfer it to another dealer tax-free on a form 3. Most “modern” dealers can e-file it, then it can be approved in 1-2 days.

I say “modern” because there are still older dealers who have not kept up with the times and are not online.  


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#6 The Lone Ranger

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Posted 06 May 2020 - 06:16 PM

If this may help - licensing and interstate receipt of firearms is not covered by the NFA, only the GCA - hence they are subject to the same process as any handgun, rifle, or shotgun.  The part about requiring an in-state dealer because it's NFA gets repeated a fair amount but is not true.


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#7 Hopalong

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Posted 07 May 2020 - 11:22 AM

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate the help!
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#8 DZelenka

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Posted 07 May 2020 - 11:49 AM

Get a C&R license and have him do a Form 4 directly to you. It is faster and cheaper. Applying for the C&R license is easy and it may come back fairly quickly. Plus you can then buy other C&R guns.

 

Dan


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#9 b_san

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Posted 07 May 2020 - 12:17 PM

 

Another much better option would be for you to get a Curio and Relics license which does not take very long. Less than 90 days

Form 4 to the out of state dealer is going to take less than that. My last couple incoming were 24-27 days.

It depends on how long you want to wait to inspect the gun and/or if your local dealer will let you shoot it while it's in his inventory. If you do the C&R transfer then the seller is keeping possession until the transfer is approved in 8-12 months. If you have it transferred to your local dealer then he has it in around a month and you can inspect, fix, clean, shoot, whatever it needs and your dealer will allow while you wait.

Edited by b_san, 07 May 2020 - 12:21 PM.

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#10 Hopalong

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Posted 07 May 2020 - 12:19 PM

Get a C&R license and have him do a Form 4 directly to you. It is faster and cheaper. Applying for the C&R license is easy and it may come back fairly quickly. Plus you can then buy other C&R guns.
 
Dan


I've always been a little concerned about opening myself up to additional regulation by having a license. Does BATF do inspections, like they do with FFLs? Thanks.
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#11 DZelenka

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Posted 07 May 2020 - 03:53 PM

Get a C&R license and have him do a Form 4 directly to you. It is faster and cheaper. Applying for the C&R license is easy and it may come back fairly quickly. Plus you can then buy other C&R guns.
 
Dan


I've always been a little concerned about opening myself up to additional regulation by having a license. Does BATF do inspections, like they do with FFLs? Thanks.

I do not believe so. There is likely to be some FAQs on ATF's website that address C&R licenses. I obtained one to buy a pair of German MGs from another board member during the 41f backlog. It worked well and saved me a second transfer tax and wait time. I haven't used it since then because I obtained an 01 FFL and SOT a short time later.

 

Dan


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#12 Hopalong

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Posted 07 May 2020 - 03:54 PM

Thanks, Dan.
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#13 maxfaxdude

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Posted 07 May 2020 - 09:48 PM

Another much better option would be for you to get a Curio and Relics license which does not take very long.  Less than 90 days.  Then the current out of state owner can transfer it directly to you with only one transfer time out period, and only one tax stamp.

It is very possible that the Thompson is a curio and relic.  Who is the maker of the Thompson. if it is Auto Ordnance, WWII timeframe, or West Hurley it is a Curio and Relic.

 

Post a few photos if you can and confirm who is the manufacturer.

 

Good luck and don't do two wait periods nor two tax stamps unless this Thompson is not C&R eligible.

 

Cheers,

Sandman1957

I thought all fully transferable Thompsons were C&R eligible.


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#14 Hopalong

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 10:34 AM


Another much better option would be for you to get a Curio and Relics license which does not take very long.  Less than 90 days.  Then the current out of state owner can transfer it directly to you with only one transfer time out period, and only one tax stamp.
It is very possible that the Thompson is a curio and relic.  Who is the maker of the Thompson. if it is Auto Ordnance, WWII timeframe, or West Hurley it is a Curio and Relic.
 
Post a few photos if you can and confirm who is the manufacturer.
 
Good luck and don't do two wait periods nor two tax stamps unless this Thompson is not C&R eligible.
 
Cheers,
Sandman1957

I thought all fully transferable Thompsons were C&R eligible.

They are. I double checked the ATF list.
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#15 Hopalong

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 10:34 AM


Another much better option would be for you to get a Curio and Relics license which does not take very long.  Less than 90 days.  Then the current out of state owner can transfer it directly to you with only one transfer time out period, and only one tax stamp.
It is very possible that the Thompson is a curio and relic.  Who is the maker of the Thompson. if it is Auto Ordnance, WWII timeframe, or West Hurley it is a Curio and Relic.
 
Post a few photos if you can and confirm who is the manufacturer.
 
Good luck and don't do two wait periods nor two tax stamps unless this Thompson is not C&R eligible.
 
Cheers,
Sandman1957

I thought all fully transferable Thompsons were C&R eligible.

They are. I double checked the ATF list.
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#16 GaryKeim

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 03:55 PM

I've used my C&R license to purchase a few old guns and you can travel interstate with them. Definitely a good thing to have, but you do need to re-up every 3 years.


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#17 Hopalong

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 04:12 PM

I've used my C&R license to purchase a few old guns and you can travel interstate with them. Definitely a good thing to have, but you do need to re-up every 3 years.


Being able to travel interstate is a huge plus. I mailed the C&R application this afternoon. Overall, it was very easy to fill out. I called ATF with a couple of questions just to make sure I had everything correct, and they were very helpful (unlike the first guy I spoke with regarding the form 4).
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#18 The Lone Ranger

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 07:29 AM

As long your app is complete/correct you *should* have your license roughly 60 days from receipt by ATF.  Even if it takes the full 60 add a few days for mail transit, you are in low-60s.  I would predict less, maybe 30-45 days but internet predictions are usually wrong and no desire to jinx you.  If the mood strikes you, a follow up post on the turnaround time for the  license would be interesting.


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#19 Hopalong

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 11:28 AM

As long your app is complete/correct you *should* have your license roughly 60 days from receipt by ATF.  Even if it takes the full 60 add a few days for mail transit, you are in low-60s.  I would predict less, maybe 30-45 days but internet predictions are usually wrong and no desire to jinx you.  If the mood strikes you, a follow up post on the turnaround time for the  license would be interesting.


The application should arrive Monday. I'll post how long it takes to get issued.
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#20 b_san

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 01:34 PM

Having the C&R doesn't forgo the ability to still transfer the gun to your local dealer quicker on a Form 4 if you want. The trade-off is an extra $200 Form 4 fee from your dealer to you (and whatever he charges you for the transfer) but the benefit is your dealer will have possession during the long transfer wait and you can shoot it (if your dealer lets you) or send it off to a smith for any work it may need. The choice is yours.
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