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Put together Colt Vickers at Morphy's


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#1 bigbore

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 12:34 PM

Will be interesting to see how much it sells for. Too bad you cant tell how many parts are matching.

https://auctions.mor...entoryid=504837


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#2 BRMCII

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 07:35 PM

Good looking, refinished gun and at least it appears to have MOST of the correct external Colt 1915 parts: .30-06 feedblock, booster, topcover, grip frame, etc.

Fusee cover is not Colt, but from a Portuguese Vickers.

One would assume that the inventory of the internals, lock, recoilplates and barrel would be correct Colt parts.

Colt 1915 parts, in my experience, were not serialized to the receiver. 

 

I have the #2 marked 1915 Colt Vickers from the Fox Studios, have had one other 1915 and have seen quite a few nice, original 1915 guns over the years. Looks to me to be an exceptional example.

The painting on the cradle is not my cup of tea. FWIW


Edited by BRMCII, 07 April 2021 - 09:56 PM.

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#3 bigbore

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 08:26 PM

Good looking, refinished gun and at least it appears to have MOST of the correct external Colt 1915 parts: .30-06 feedblock, booster, topcover, grip frame, etc.

Fusee cover is not Colt, but from a Portugese Vickers.

One would assume that the inventory of the internals, lock, recoilplates and barrel would be correct Colt parts.

Colt 1915 parts, in my experience, were not serialized to the receiver. 

 

I have the #2 marked 1915 Colt Vickers from the Fox Studios, have had one other 1915 and have seen quite a few nice, original 1915 guns over the years. Looks to me to be an exceptional example.

The painting on the cradle is not my cup of tea. FWIW

assembled on a Colt sideplate SN:1570  Colts parts aren't numbered, but they are stamped with a mark specific to colt.  If the fusee isn't colt, no telling how many of the internals aren't either.


Edited by bigbore, 13 April 2021 - 12:37 PM.

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#4 BRMCII

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 09:13 PM

I have to disagree that the gun is necessarily a "put together" example due to the number stamped on the top of the front endcap being different than the numbers stamped on the inside of the plate. There is an anomaly with the Colt 1915s. The numbers that are stamped on the inside rear of the plates and also stamped on the bottom front of the jacket, the bottom of front endcap and often just above the front mount holes are assembly numbers, not serial numbers. These numbers should match to indicate that the receiver parts were assembled together at the factory.
The serial number is on the top front of the endcap and is #2321.
The right sideplate is not serial #1570.
The pic of the inside of the right sideplate shows #1570 so if the gun is correct as it was manufactured, the number on the inside of the left sideplate, on the bottom of the front of the jacket and the bottom front endcap should also be 1570. However, there are no pics of the number on the inside of the left plate or the front bottom of the jacket and endcap.
The only way to tell if the right sideplate does not belong to that receiver is to see the other assembly numbers stamped on the gun. Maybe someone who reads this will ask Morphys what those numbers are.
I don't believe the Morphys people know what those other numbers mean.

I am inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt and believe what the description says about it being in .30-06 since they seem to know how scarce the US parts are.

FWIW


Edited by BRMCII, 08 April 2021 - 12:31 PM.

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#5 MG1918

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 07:32 AM

I hope people do not go mad with my ignorance but who is Dick Wray?

Mark


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#6 BRMCII

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 11:48 AM

Wray was a longtime firearms, MG collector and FFL/SOT manufacturer in Cincinnati, OH famed for his extensive MG collection and shop housed in a former bowling alley. From an early age, he was active in gun collecting and developed an avid interest in MG collecting and other areas of the MG business from the late 1950s into the early years of the 2000s and passed away in 2012.

The auction of his MGs took place at Cowans Auctions in Cinncinati, OH on April 30, 2013. They may still have copies of the catalog which is an excellent reference for vintage MGs. FWIW


Edited by BRMCII, 12 April 2021 - 08:04 AM.

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#7 MG1918

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 01:37 PM

Thank you Sir. I have heard his name mentioned many times so hope no one is offended, especially considering now what I know!
Mark


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#8 bigbore

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 01:52 PM

However, there are no pics of the number on the inside of the left plate or the front bottom of the jacket and endcap.
The only way to tell if the right sideplate does not belong to that receiver is to see the other assembly numbers stamped on the gun. Maybe someone who reads this will ask Morphys what those numbers are.
 


I emailed them asking for pics of those serial numbers before I made my original post.    I'd like to bid, but without that info anyone is crazy to do so.  Those numbers matching or not make at least a $10,000 difference in value to what I'd be willing to spend.
I still have not heard back.


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#9 ron_brock

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 04:26 PM

If you are really wanting to get info and bid, call and ask for John Keene

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#10 BRMCII

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 10:40 AM

I e-mailed Keene, who is a friend of mine from back during his Julia Auctions days and asked him to get me the number information on the Vickers.

He was on the road and asked one of his people to check and send the numbers to him so the numbers, so I might get an e-mail or he'll post them somewhere. Hope this helps.......


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#11 bigbore

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 12:07 PM

I e-mailed Keene, who is a friend of mine from back during his Julia Auctions days and asked him to get me the number information on the Vickers.

He was on the road and asked one of his people to check and send the numbers to him so the numbers, so I might get an e-mail or he'll post them somewhere. Hope this helps.......


I just got a reply back from "info" they sent every pic I asked for except for the side plate SN.  The numbers on the jacket match the number on the shown side plate, but of course I gotta know if both side plates have the same number.


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#12 bigbore

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 12:12 PM

I e-mailed Keene, who is a friend of mine from back during his Julia Auctions days and asked him to get me the number information on the Vickers.

He was on the road and asked one of his people to check and send the numbers to him so the numbers, so I might get an e-mail or he'll post them somewhere. Hope this helps.......


Have you ever seen a Colt Vickers with NO markings on the top of the trunnion?  Perhaps a welded up aircraft gun?

Attached Files


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#13 BRMCII

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 07:05 PM

None of the 1915 Colt Vickers have any factory markings on the rear of the jacket at the trunnion. 
All markings about model, serial, maker, patents, assembly numbers, etc,  are stamped on the front top and bottom of the front cap.

The only other stamps are the assembly numbers in the inside of rhe plates and the US inspector's stamps on various parts, u/v

FWIW


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#14 Mongo

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 08:10 PM

this the gun you guys are talking about?

 

https://youtu.be/GmBuOGvujzI


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#15 bigbore

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 06:13 AM

this the gun you guys are talking about?

 

https://youtu.be/GmBuOGvujzI


Yes, that video didn't help any.


Edited by bigbore, 13 April 2021 - 12:38 PM.

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#16 bigbore

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 06:17 AM

None of the 1915 Colt Vickers have any factory markings on the rear of the jacket at the trunnion. 
All markings about model, serial, maker, patents, assembly numbers, etc,  are stamped on the front top and bottom of the front cap.

The only other stamps are the assembly numbers in the inside of rhe plates and the US inspector's stamps on various parts, u/v

FWIW


Good to know. I asked because this one is marked  http://www.sturmgewe...-vickers-25000/


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#17 BRMCII

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 07:35 AM

After looking at the other pics of that gun it is very clear that the actual serial number is 5964 and the assembly number is 6611. Someone engraved the assembly number on the top of the trunnion area which is not correct for the 1915s. It is possible the original registration of the gun used the assembly number which is one of the anomalies with the 1915s. If so, then the numver was engraved on the top probably because they person thought  that is what needed to be done.  The Brit pattern was copied.
Once again, a buyer should  ask if all the assembly numbers are 6611 to confirm that the gun is factory assembled.

Kent Lomont had a quantity of 1915s that were cobbled together and registered post-Amnesty but I don't have any info on how they were prepared for registration. 
The gun should be carefully assessed further before paying the price being asked.FWIW


Edited by BRMCII, 13 April 2021 - 08:08 AM.

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#18 Black River Militaria CII

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 10:15 AM

Amend the above post about Lomont's 1915s: the guns were apparently registered but were in various states of disrepair and perhaps DEWATS, etc and, Lomont did whatever work was necessary to put them back in good functional condition. FWIW


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#19 bigbore

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 11:32 AM

After looking at the other pics of that gun it is very clear that the actual serial number is 5964 and the assembly number is 6611. Someone engraved the assembly number on the top of the trunnion area which is not correct for the 1915s. It is possible the original registration of the gun used the assembly number which is one of the anomalies with the 1915s. If so, then the numver was engraved on the top probably because they person thought  that is what needed to be done.  The Brit pattern was copied.
Once again, a buyer should  ask if all the assembly numbers are 6611 to confirm that the gun is factory assembled.

Kent Lomont had a quantity of 1915s that were cobbled together and registered post-Amnesty but I don't have any info on how they were prepared for registration. 
The gun should be carefully assessed further before paying the price being asked.FWIW


That link was just for reference -  the add is 5yrs old.
Thanks for your input though. It's appreciated.


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#20 BRMCII

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 11:41 AM

Ok. Well, it is still a good example of the variety of oddball 1915s that are registered........


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