dalbert Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 There are some on this board who don't appreciate my stance on posting items for sale here. In order to post here, you have to be at least an RKI member. (RKI Member, Long Time RKI Member, Respected Member, or Moderator) The reasons I do this are as follows: This board is primarily for collector purposes other than sellingI want to observe member interactions before I allow them to post items for saleI don't want anyone to get scammedOur sister board, Sturmgewehr.com, is a forum focused primarily on selling itemsI just want to want everyone to know that scams are becoming more frequent. There are certain criminals out there who know that NFA items are expensive, and will post items for sale that they don't have, hoping that someone among us will send them a check. Typically, they post an item below market value, hoping that someone will immediately think they are getting a deal, and possibly lure in multiple victims. This has happened several times. Everyone who considers purchasing NFA items or accessories should remain very cautious. If the deal seems too good, it probably is. It makes my stomach churn to think of someone losing throusands of dollars because they didn't know the seller, and didn't see any of the warning signs. I'm borrowing the following advice from Buddy, which is posted on the General Firearms Discussion Board on Sturm. SCAMMERS - RED FLAGSIf ANY of These RED FLAGS happen ..... STOP THE DEAL NOW!!! DO NOT SEND MONEY !Note the Order of RED FLAGS* Unknown Poster .... WHO IS this person ? [ Ref Chk ...Duh....Ya THINK !]* Really .... WEIRD.....STUPID ..... Nonsensical email address .* UNBELIEVEABLE .... FANTASTIC Price ! [ yeah already 50 views and YOU think you are the First Contact! Ha ! ]* Poorly written ads ..... out of place words used ... mispellings ...translation >>> POOR ENGRISH ! [Get it ?]* SUPER FAST Return Email ...... WOW this is GREAT !!! [ Is it now ? ]* Continued Fast email Contact....even several Friendly emails..... [ yeah a real "Chatty Cathy " ]* Wire Funds ..... [ WHATS the RUSH ? DUH ..... To SCAM MANY Guys ... before They "CATCH ON" ]* Send Money Order Overnight ....... [ See Above Sentence ]* Send Money Order to a DIFFERENT location than location posted with ad..... [ Are You KIDDING ME ???]* Send Money to Another Person .... [ WTF ? ]* The Seller ASKS for a Tracking Number for YOUR Money Order ..... WHY ?He will say .."So I can be Home awaiting your Letter"Translation ..."So I can INTERCEPT your Money Order from my local Victims mailbox !" [ This IS US Mail Tampering! ]* "My Camera is Broken" ... [Really ?]* NEVER deal with ANYONE offering ANY "Military ID" and military photos as "Proof" ... that "I am a Good Guy" ....SCAMMER !and Last...... THIS ALWAYS Catches the SCUMBAGS !!* Give them a REALLY LOW Offer...... if they say Yes >>>> SCAM !!!!Because THEY DON'T HAVE THE WEAPON/Item and will TAKE ANY OFFER YOU MAKE .....ALL These RED FLAGS and YOU STILL Sent a Money Order.......Get ready for it ........ here it comes .... BAM !ps.....ask them a really techincal question about the item....... see what answer you get .have them take a photo of "their" item....with YOUR or even THEIR Email address written on a piece of paper laying ON the item.Proof they have this item....They will STOP the emails.Offer to do a FTF - Face To Face Transaction.......say you have a friend that lives nearby or you have business in that general area and will come and Pick-up the item and pay CASH ! See what happens .... NOTHING ! I'm posting this with the hope that it might save someone here from being scammed on any gun board. Thanks! David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkel Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 I agree. All good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief762 Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Thanks David! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soe Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Great info.Why not make new members register with an account and usename. Then if they dont are online intil 4 months DELETE them.The forum are open for all people. If you do that "register" you will sort out many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoscoeTurner Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Forum members already have to register with an account and username. Great info.Why not make new members register with an account and usename. Then if they dont are online intil 4 months DELETE them.The forum are open for all people. If you do that "register" you will sort out many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soe Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Hi RTI mean if you are registered you can read forumIf not, you cant read anythingSoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 SOE, That's actually an interesting idea, and within the capabilities of the forum software here. However, I've chosen to keep tabs on the issue through other means, since the primary focus of the forum is discussion. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speeddemon02 Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 Military always equal scammer? I take a little offense to that, but actually being that and seeing the type of people now in uniform saddly must agree, but I have no other credit to my name at the moment. Maybe something like this should be pinned somewhere though it would make the best sense over on Sturmgewehr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Speeddemon02, Take no offense to the military scammer reference...it is just a red flag for a situation that has occurred. Scammers will attempt to earn your trust however they can, and will abuse the perceived trust of anyone who thinks that a "member of the military" would not scam them. David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman1957 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 David, When you have a known scammer, please post all names and emails they use. Flush them out in the open.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphinvet Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 I've always asked to see a copy of the form 4 before I send any money plus a photo of the weapon that matches the form 4. That pretty much would destroy ANY scammer. If I'm going to send several thousand dollars to someone I don't know I want at least a little bit of proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted October 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2013 Beware, even if you see a Form 4. It's best to know the person you're dealing with. If you don't know the seller, take every precaution you can to protect yourself. Going with a well known dealer can prevent fraud. There's a current scammer who got someone for a MAC-11 with a 1990 dated Form 4 copy. The buyer should have seen some warning signs, such as the seller being in Chicago, but the seller offered weapon photos, sent copies of a Form 4, and the buyer sent him over $4K. Once the seller got the money, they disappeared. I absolutely hate hearing about experiences like this. Be very, very careful out there. David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphinvet Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 I've never been scammed, but I can see how it happened. A few years back I purchased an AC556k from a dealer in Arizona, but his calls were coming from California. I talked to him about it, and we did make a deal on the gun. I have never met the person I purchased it from nor ever saw his face, so I guess I could have been taken. Fortunately, all went well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Henley Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 I've said before the NFA purchasing process is ripe for fraud and scams. Unless you know the person, a reputable dealer (firearm in possession) is a good option. I've bought from someone I didn't know, and all went well, but you have to be very careful. A great benefits of this forum is you get to know people with similar interests who can help you pursue your hobby. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkummer Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 I would add to very cautious about items from a UK e-mail address also. I recently posted a WTB for Ingram M6 parts and some things just don't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted October 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 Posting WTB ads can easily attract predators who will find a photo of the item you want, and try to "sell" it to you. Post these types of ads with extreme caution, and remain suspicious of any responses received. David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkel Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 (edited) I've never been scammed as a buyer, just lucky I guess. But as a seller I have run into a few scam artists. Edited October 26, 2013 by timkel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman1957 Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 elaborate. and all post names emails of all suspected scammers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted November 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 Sandman1957, Go here, and you'll see lots of details... http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/general.cgi David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman1957 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 David, Thanks, since I have seen 'scammer beware" warnings pop up on several forums Sturm that you pointed out, SUBGUNs etc, there has got to be a way we can help each other. If someone is purchasing from a person in Central VA to Eastern VA, I will do what I can to assist. IE, offer to look at the gun first hand and give an idependent appraisal. (confirm seller, home, gun etc). I am sure there have to be others who would do the same for a gun that is near their location. Anyone who is hesitant to show their guns would be a huge red flag.Any others with thoughts etc.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.hayes1942 Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Greetings all, Be cautious of any request to send funds overseas also. On of my colleagues at work was silly enough to send money off-shore for an old Ford Mustang. Not only did he get ripped off, but we gave him a hard time for the longest, until he shot himself in the hand while sleep-walking. He hasn't heard the end of that one yet. jh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsonlmg41 Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Use the phone. I have an ad on sturm for the last 2 weeks for an NFA item and had about 4 responses. All ask for pics, and all asking for a pic of the forms. I've provided pics in a couple cases, but no pics on the forms unless we can work out a phone call. Not happening unless we can have a discussion on the phone first. Then I'll be asking who your transfer dealer is. The NFA world has less than two degrees of separation. We're talking about less than 10k people, probably much less. If I don't know you or haven't heard of you or your dealer, then we certainly know someone in common? And then can provide a reference one way or the other, communicate and then maybe make a deal. I can't think of a buy or sell I've done without a phone conversation, except small parts, and even then I'll likely verify a mailing address on the google. If you're just relying solely on email without other verification you're gonna get burned. It's a daily occurence on sturm, just by sheer volume of transactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalbert Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Here's a post on Sturm where Buddy details 24 different scams that he zapped... http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/general.cgi?read=74850 I'm going to pin this topic for reference. David Albertdalbert@sturmgewehr.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 Here are some things I've done in the past. Require to see the NFA form the firearm is on, making sure the name of the owner and seller match. See if the seller has been a member of any firearm board for very long and ask the members to act as reference. Do an online search of seller name and see if it turns anything strange. Request to see the firearm in person, if nothing else but to get their reaction. If all looks reasonably okay, ask to receive some kind of signed transaction receipt before you mail tens of thousands of dollars. This is not totally fool proof but at least you have a little paper trail along with the cancelled check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc269 Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 Dave, Luckily I avoided a scam I think. I was buying a Raptor Night Vision Scope, Think it was 4K used. After I got his address, I called a nearby Gun Shop and offered the guy a 100 bucks if he would inspect the scope and handle the transaction. He was very helpful after I sent him instructions on what to look for. But after I got it all set up and told the guy where to take the scope, only 10 minutes from his home, all of a sudden he had sold it to a friend. HaHa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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