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Danger of Paypal Gift to sellers


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#1 huggytree

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 03:29 PM

Just wanted to warn all of you who believe paypal gift is safe for sellers...its not

 

Sold some mags on GB As Is. Buyer paid with paypal Gift. Buyer wasnt happy, asked for some extra $$ or a refund. I refused. He sent back the mags w/o my permission. I refunded his money minus the $15 shipping to move on.

Suddenly i notice my paypal account is -$145
I can not remove my bank account info or change it. my banking is locked
I call them, they tell me there is not a case against me officially, but the buyer has claimed CC fraud, that i charged his card Illegally. 30 days goes bye. never once has paypal alerted me to a case against me or asked me for any information.

Today i get a collections letter in the mail from a collections agency. I find myself trying to fight through a collector(not paypal) my case.

Do not use paypal gift unless you know the buyer. You are not as safe as you think.

 

 

PS- resold the mags for $10 more and got a A+ rating from new buyer!!!!! 


Edited by huggytree, 09 March 2019 - 03:30 PM.

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#2 huggytree

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 03:59 PM

Thank you for your patience.
I checked and see that the case was filed by the buyer with his bank for an unauthorized transaction and the bank closed the case in buyers favor, and the payment sent to you was sent as personal payment, so personal payments will not be covered under sellers protection.
Hence we debited your account for the payment you received
 
 
Py
Prabhu Swamy
03:04 PM
The case was closed in buyers favor as the payment was sent as personal payment and you are not covered under sellers protection for personal payments.
dt
 
03:05 PM
so any buyer can do this....no evidence needed
Py
Prabhu Swamy
03:05 PM
So by default the buyer wins and in your case the buyer disputed with his bank so we do not have any authority over the decision made the bank.
dt
 
03:05 PM
i clearly can show endless evidence..yet none was asked from me
if you have no authority why are you going against me?
you take sides
Py
Prabhu Swamy
03:07 PM
The case was filed by the buyer with their bank and the bank has closed the case in buyers favor, as the buyer filed the dispute as unauthorized transaction.
dt
 
03:08 PM
so again....i can dispute any seller....and i will win 100%
Py
Prabhu Swamy
03:08 PM
We cannot provide refund to you now, because the payment was sent as personal payment.
 
dt
 
03:11 PM
ive paid the seller THROUGH YOUR SERVICE...you can see this correct?
so what if the buyer never tells you he has been paid?
some buyers are bad people...how do you solve this issue?
what if i pay the buyer again
?
but not through you
Py
Prabhu Swamy
03:13 PM
We do take a valid evidence which shows that the buyers claim is genuine. Please read PayPal legal terms for seller protection.
dt
 
03:13 PM
do you see the evidence i refunded him?
you ruled in favor of him w/ no evidence from me
Py
Prabhu Swamy
03:13 PM
Yes, you have refunded the payment, but it was made as personal payment.
You can only dispute a goods and service payment.
dt
 
03:14 PM
if i refunded the payment why cant we close this?
Py
Prabhu Swamy
03:15 PM
You refunded as personal payment and you will not be covered under seller protection for personal payments.
 

Edited by huggytree, 09 March 2019 - 04:18 PM.

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#3 RoscoeTurner

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 04:20 PM

And now you know why I will only accept USPS money orders for payment for GB sales, yes, it takes longer but you will not run into problems like this.  If for any reason they want a refund, the funds are sent to them as a USPS money order same as I received.  It prevents third parties that I have no control over from dipping into my bank account.


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#4 Oldtrooper

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 04:44 PM

I quit using paypal years ago when they double hit my bank account for a payment and would not refund the overcharge ... They would only issue me a "paypal credit" towards my next purchase ... Like Mr Turner, I only use USPS money orders now. 


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#5 HHollow

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 06:41 PM

Great information.  I had never considered that the payer would lie about bank fraud.

 

So who is the douche who defrauded huggy?


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#6 huggytree

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 06:55 PM

just a buyer on GB
 
you Think your protected with the gift part of PayPal. Actually your less protected

Anyone can do this to you

I gave the guy a neg review now on G.B. I full get one in return Im sure

The guy wrote me endless emails. He was having conversations w me in his head. Arguing things with himself. Pages of emails.

Edited by huggytree, 09 March 2019 - 07:02 PM.

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#7 Combat Vet

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 08:57 PM

My brother got screwed with Paypal also. I need to start doing USPS only. I use Paypal so often, I guess it is only a matter of time before I get screwed.

 

Kevin


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#8 ron_brock

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 09:37 PM

Keep in mind that a gift payment is simply that. Using a gift payment skirts PayPal fees and therefore offers no protection as they are not to be used for purchases.

Another trick that was played against me is even if you have your eBay auction listed as no returns they buyer can still return an they will refund.

At the end of the day 99.99% transactions go off without a hitch.

Ron
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#9 Ready.fire.aim

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 09:52 PM

If you would have paid the transaction fee to PayPal, you would have recourse,as a seller.

I buy non-gun related items such as tools on EBay and always pay the PayPal fee

I avoid PayPal for anything gun related. They locked up both my account and seller’s over a flash hider. It was legal in both states ( Texas and North Carolina) so PP eventually backed down and unlocked tboth accounts.
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#10 WJP

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 10:18 PM

Honestly I think you should have just credited the full amount instead of deducting $15 and sending as a gift. I looked at your original 40 rd uzi mag ad and it listed them "nice shape most look unused" and they did have dents. Not ragging on you but saving $15 or not taking the time to point out flaws is a lesson learned. I've dealt with people that were hard to deal with using pp. One guy locked mine down for $1700+ because ups broke it and he refused insurance. I told him just to send it back when he tried to shake me down for a few hundred. Finally he dropped the case.

https://www.gunbroke.../item/796590064
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#11 huggytree

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 10:41 PM

Keep in mind that a gift payment is simply that. Using a gift payment skirts PayPal fees and therefore offers no protection as they are not to be used for purchases.

Another trick that was played against me is even if you have your eBay auction listed as no returns they buyer can still return an they will refund.

At the end of the day 99.99% transactions go off without a hitch.

Ron

They actually offer full protection for the buyer
They are outright brutal on the seller as they agree I refunded him, yet wont remove my -$145. Even if I settle with the owner on the side I will always owe the $145 to them. Im locked in a box I cant get out of. Not without paying twice now.

I regret giving him anything as I told him no refund, yet he shipped it back anyways. I believe he started the fraud charge before I refunded him. So giving him $145 full refund would just mean I would be out another $15

As for the description. If i listed every mark on the mag or any item I would never sell anything. When Ruben or frank sells a $40,000 gun do they list every mark on the gun? No. They take pictures. Which I did. Every dent/ mark on those mags are clearly visible.

The buyer I believe wanted a partial refund and might have been a scammer from the start

Listing every flaw is a double edged sword.

Edited by huggytree, 09 March 2019 - 10:47 PM.

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#12 WJP

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:49 PM


Keep in mind that a gift payment is simply that. Using a gift payment skirts PayPal fees and therefore offers no protection as they are not to be used for purchases.

Another trick that was played against me is even if you have your eBay auction listed as no returns they buyer can still return an they will refund.

At the end of the day 99.99% transactions go off without a hitch.

Ron

They actually offer full protection for the buyer
They are outright brutal on the seller as they agree I refunded him, yet wont remove my -$145. Even if I settle with the owner on the side I will always owe the $145 to them. Im locked in a box I cant get out of. Not without paying twice now.

I regret giving him anything as I told him no refund, yet he shipped it back anyways. I believe he started the fraud charge before I refunded him. So giving him $145 full refund would just mean I would be out another $15

As for the description. If i listed every mark on the mag or any item I would never sell anything. When Ruben or frank sells a $40,000 gun do they list every mark on the gun? No. They take pictures. Which I did. Every dent/ mark on those mags are clearly visible.

The buyer I believe wanted a partial refund and might have been a scammer from the start

Listing every flaw is a double edged sword.

I've actually sold more by listing every flaw than without. I generally get an A+ better than described. If I don't get that I still get an A+ and something else. Probably half the people are using a phone to bid so it's hard to see the dings. A proper short description would have been. Like new with slight scuffs dings ask for more pictures if needed before bidding.

1. You didn't accurately describe in my opinion.
2. You used pp for an item they don't allow.
3. You decided to keep what you wanted for your troubles.
4. You gifted the partial refund.

As soon as I emailed the guy offering a full refund including shipping both ways and he declined, PP unlocked my account. Not saying your guy isn't a jerk or it's all on you. However you need to follow their rules and list to the best of your abilities to have a leg to stand on. Buying a $26 mag and a 40k gun are different leagues as well. People generally take an A+ guy at his word on a $26 mag. 40k gun gets a few emails/phone calls back and forth.
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#13 Bill DeShivs

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 02:17 AM

Everybody wants to screw Paypal out of their fees.

Comes back to bite you.


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#14 Normal1959

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 09:58 AM

If someone is not happy, i offer a full refund and send them an American flag pin for the trouble. Saves money issues of course and negative feedback which can be worse. Amazon sells these pins by the hundred lot.

Eric

 

 

 

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#15 riflenut

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 11:53 AM

All I can say is F PP

 

I was a long time Ebay/PP used with 100% rating on both - a guy bought a NOS in the box $300 hi-perf drag car part off my a few years ago - LOTS of pics in ad, it was unopened in the box. Guy pays me, I ship, staget the oartte clearly in ad PART IS NEW NO RETURNS. Guy gets in touch with me a week later - wants to return part, I refuse. 

 

Guy files complaint with Ebay, I send ad & all correspondence - Ebay rules in my favor & refuses refund.

 

Guy files fraud case with PP - the guy had less than 25 Ebay/PP transactions with a 90% feedback, I had over 900 with a 100% 

 

PP locks my account for 5 months! I finally agree to accept the return - I get te part opened, obviously used, without any recourse

 

F PP!


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#16 Speeddemon02

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 12:11 PM

Do not use or support paypal, very simple lesson I learned over 10 years ago and have never looked back.  I had to threaten them with police action to get the money from them as they would not help and give me a run around on what to do and be repeating the same 3 steps.


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#17 Sandman1957

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 01:55 PM

I don't use paypal because they are anti gun.  Period.  I don't use them.  When I can I do not use or deal with companies that want to stamp out guns.


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#18 TSMGguy

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 03:35 PM

I was scammed out of $15 for a Rahseed magazine that I paid for using PP gift. PP told me there were no protections of any kind when PP gift is used. They did not go after the scammer. Never again.


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#19 Bill DeShivs

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 01:14 AM

I was scammed out of $15 for a Rahseed magazine that I paid for using PP gift. PP told me there were no protections of any kind when PP gift is used. They did not go after the scammer. Never again.

It wasn't a gift- it was a PURCHASE.

Like I said- everybody wants to screw Paypal out of their fees.


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#20 JimB

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 03:11 PM

Paypal

 

I was scammed out of $15 for a Rahseed magazine that I paid for using PP gift. PP told me there were no protections of any kind when PP gift is used. They did not go after the scammer. Never again.

It wasn't a gift- it was a PURCHASE.

Like I said- everybody wants to screw Paypal out of their fees.

 

Yep straight truth that.

 

Now on to the points others have made:

 

Paypal is no more "Antigun" than S&W, Colt and Ruger have been in the past

Smith was once a huge advocate of mandatory Registrion

Both Smith & Colt were well invested in the bogus Smart Gun idiocy

Ruger used to be the worst when Bill was still at the helm.  He pretty much established the 10 round mag limit and much of the feature list on what civilians don't need.

Paypal and Ebay went goofy under pressure from the government and their lawyers liability concerns.  Both relaxed policy quite a bit.

 

I detest selling on GunJoker

plenty of Clowns who want to negotiate post purchase particularly on larger ticket items

I know a gun show vendor who brags about doing this to people.  He targets new sellers hard, buys things then whines hard to get up to 20% refunds

that venue is a Den of Vipers

 

Huggy

Here's what actually happened.  You busted yourself cheating the paypal model

F&F Gift is ​ONLY  ​to be used for Gifts

I'm just shocked they didn't kill both sides accounts as both made it clear they violated the TOS agreement

As it is as the seller they are spanking you over being cheap and cheating them out of their cut buddy.

 

So how to avoid all this ?

 

1st thing you NEVER​ tie PP to a main account

Establish an account at a bank you do no other business with and keep a very very small sum in it.  Credit Unions are good for this

Do not transfer PP balances into this account, obtain a PP debit card and take it out via ATM

Someone starts acting funky raising the spider sense call the bank and have them disable all electronic transfer access to said account pronto.

Yeah this means you lose on the ATM withdrawl and you have to hit the bank to deposit pre PP transfer but otherwise they can snag you up

Another thing, when you tie a card to PP disable it quickly and have a new one issued

 

More things:

I dislike Friends & Family Gifting

1st off if you are using it against a purchase you are being a cheat.  I don't see much different in that than going through the self service lane at a supermarket and not scanning some things in your cart.

I charge 3.5% add on and do things as a standard purchase

Now even that is afoul of PP TOS but they don't really care too much as they are still getting their cut.

As the seller PP views you as the problem at this point huggy.  We all know you are a great guy but in this case they are correct

you reached your hand in their pocket stealing nickels & dimes

brother it's not worth it.

 

I also chuckle when folks have a problem with paypal and try to resolve it via email

Almost all of that is answered by a calling center in India...sigh

Everything is always canned responses based on corporate script

To get things done somewhat you call mid morning.  You usually reach the US offices then you will need to escalate up to management

figure an easy minimum of an hour on the phone telling and retelling your issue then demanding to speak to a supervisor before you start to get anywhere.

All email does is divert you to an overseas answering center, might be one American managing the operation.  Often not even that huggy

 

I have used the service for roughly twenty years now

registered late 99' as an easier method to run overseas transfers

yeah had some issues over the past two decades, everyone was eventually resolved to my credit & satisfaction.

early 2000s had scammers claim they never received product

well I had slips and pix of the parcel as well as proof of delivery

claims dropped, other parties accounts closed

Frankly to be honest with you I have had more money order games than issues ever with PP

 

my suggestion, you won't like it either but to just pay up your Idiot Tax after ratting your own self out trying to game their system

I get it, I really do huggy but PP is a for profit.

You want to send the niece a Gift for her birthday or boyfriends bail...that's what it's there for dude

not paying even friends/family for Goods & Services money due.


Edited by JimB, 11 March 2019 - 03:17 PM.

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