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Ian McCollum of "Forgotten Weapons" with 1921AC #10163


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He fails to surprise or impress me anymore. Seeing how jaded he is on all firearms he personally doesn't like is just something I cannot get past as he runs a channel based on factual and practical aspects.

I am honestly surprised he even did a video on this. Good thing I didn't bet on hell freezing over first!

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Took a look at the pre-sale estimate on Morphy's. Question: is the estimate in line with the visual condition of the weapon?

I would say the max estimate is low, if condition truly is amazing and everything is correct, however I have not examined the gun, pictures or video in enough detail to make any judgements. If one were interested in a high end gun, an in person inspection would be warranted in my opinion.

 

Ron

Visually, look at the barrel and the condition of the wood vs. the bluing in some of the marks in the receiver and lack of scuffs, etc. Indeed, you would want to personally inspect this gun.

 

I like Ian's videos and while not always 100% they do churn up interest and I've used them for reference on some rare items. For the price you sure can't beat them. A lot of stuff he reviews gives people of lot of info on obscure items you can't go see in the cabela's gun library and even if they were there the guys that work there don't know much. Can't see much at shows anymore either so they are a great resource to see what most folks can't see anymore unless you know and are close to established collectors who have the goods. Obviously the auction companies see the numbers rising or they wouldn't bring him in? I think doing a good video is a LOT harder than it looks.

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Wonder if he has any other videos ready to go on say the WH, AOC, etc made guns now

Strange enough, he has already published Youtube videos on the Thompsons accessible only through the auction site and not through normal browsing on YT. He also has a shooting comparison video of the Thompsons shown in all the videos.

 

Edited by Renz
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I assume they had permission of the consignor to conduct a firing study of the items being consigned. Hopefully catalog photos were taken after the firing sessions. I assume so.

 

Interestingly he found what most who have shot all versions of the gun. The original is superior in handling over the later. Wheres Buzz when we need him? This matches my preference as well, the 21 RoF is much more controllable than the 28 or M1.

 

The Cutts is functional, I wonder if he would also come to the same conclusion on the Blish principle if studied in some detail. Required for the 45acp, no, but that was not known when the submachinegun type weapons were first developed.

 

Ron

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He hinted at a review of the M1 TSMG in the near future.

But wait there's more!

 

 

Dont care what his thoughts are. Yes, it surprised me on how heavy it was, but not the heaviest thing to lug around. It could be 50lb, but if I am effective with it then that is what I am using. Out the gate with it was picking bottles off at 40-50yd, not so much with the MP40 or M10. Just very natural aiming for me. As mentioned before its a first and still being used to compare modern and semi modern SMGs to it. Does anyone do any comparisons with the MP18...no, that tells me something.

Edited by Speeddemon02
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The Thompson was a product of its era. How could JT Thompson know that it would become a favorite of the underworld, or serve in the Banana Wars and an upcoming world war, where it would be superceded?

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I thought it was a great video other than the very few flaws mentioned.

IMO this group tends to nit pick too much.

 

Ian has bumped interest in this gun (and others) through these vids.

 

A great service to the community in general.

I wonder if this gun brings a small premium because of the vid.

I have bought specific serial number guns that he has mentioned in other videos and its kind of neat to have a "famous video gun" ;)

LOL. It's just YouTube. I guess since Hickok45 used my M60E6, PPSh-41, MP44, and Colt BAR in his videos, then they are famous too? ;)

Absolutely. Worth at least double. Right up to the point when they meet the market ;)

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Assaulting Ian's credibility as firearms historian is absurd if you require him to be a fan of every firearm he documents. But he does not say, even in this 55 second clip, that he is not a fan of the TSMG. He says he is not a fan of shooting the TSMG. Which is entirely different.

I generally respect and like his videos.

But THIS I dont understand.

The Thompson is hands down my favorite machine gun to fire.

I guess its like driving a really old Ferrari.

Newer ones are much better cars in each and every way.

But driving an old carburated Ferrari is a thrill like no other. The market agrees ;)

And honestly the Thompson is pretty sweet to fire even though its almost 100 years old.

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  • 3 years later...

I just purchased Colt TSMG #10163 at the "final" Creek a few weeks back (10/2021). So, just to make sure that when I arrived at my FFL/SOT to disassemble the gun correctly, and inspect it..... I watched Ian's 1921 TSMG video. I just about fell off my chair when I saw him pan past the serial number...….10163. It is a very nice gun with no significant faults, other than being nicely refinished on the sides and top and a few light marks on the stock. I will visit it regularly while in NFA jail at my SOT :(

 

Trying to decide if I want to actually shoot it, as I have several other TSMG "shooters" : 1928 WH, M1 Savage and M1 WH, which I shoot every chance I get. Never had any issues, as I only use new, quality ammo like S&B SB45A, Speer Lawman or Magtech….. all 230gr. FMJ. I would certainly swap-out for a 1928A1 bolt, actuator, guide and spring for the OEM internal Colt parts....my main concern would be to damage the barrel. Decisions, decisions, decisions...….

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MGTedFL,

Welcome to the Thompson forum.

 

Congratulations on your acquisition of NO 10163. It was one of 3 Colt's I saw for sale at the Creek that weekend. And what a great time!

 

NO 10163 was displayed under glass so I never had a chance to look at it closely. When I returned home I noted in my files that NO 10163 was included in the 2018 and 2019 Morphy's Auctions. Hence, the above video by Ian McCollum. Both auction descriptions indicated the receiver and frame of NO 10163 was refinished. If that is true, I would think refinishing would be a significant factor in grading any 100 year old firearm. Interestingly, the description stated the barrel was not refinished. When visiting NO 10163, I would take a good look at the finish, preferably outside in the sunlight.

 

I will be glad to send you the copies of the auction descriptions.

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If you are looking at it as an investment, then no, dont shoot it. But obviously financially you are doing ok otherwise you would of not of bought it. I would shoot and enjoy it. You live once, and to think you bought a material object and not be able (or want to) to enjoy the fruits of your labor seems kind of counterintuitive. So what if you put a little wear on the gun. In the grand scheme of life, who cares. Edited by halftrack
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I just purchased Colt TSMG #10163 at the "final" Creek a few weeks back (10/2021). So, just to make sure that when I arrived at my FFL/SOT to disassemble the gun correctly, and inspect it..... I watched Ian's 1921 TSMG video. I just about fell off my chair when I saw him pan past the serial number....10163. It is a very nice gun with no significant faults, other than being nicely refinished on the sides and top and a few light marks on the stock. I will visit it regularly while in NFA jail at my SOT :(

 

Trying to decide if I want to actually shoot it, as I have several other TSMG "shooters" : 1928 WH, M1 Savage and M1 WH, which I shoot every chance I get. Never had any issues, as I only use new, quality ammo like S&B SB45A, Speer Lawman or Magtech.. all 230gr. FMJ. I would certainly swap-out for a 1928A1 bolt, actuator, guide and spring for the OEM internal Colt parts....my main concern would be to damage the barrel. Decisions, decisions, decisions....

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I just purchased Colt TSMG #10163 at the "final" Creek a few weeks back (10/2021). So, just to make sure that when I arrived at my FFL/SOT to disassemble the gun correctly, and inspect it..... I watched Ian's 1921 TSMG video. I just about fell off my chair when I saw him pan past the serial number....10163. It is a very nice gun with no significant faults, other than being nicely refinished on the sides and top and a few light marks on the stock. I will visit it regularly while in NFA jail at my SOT :(

 

Trying to decide if I want to actually shoot it

So the Gun Jesus blessed your Colt.. Cool.

 

I'd take it out once to ensure that it fires correctly. I am just extra careful with it.

Edited by Ryo
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If you are looking at it as an investment, then no, dont shoot it. But obviously financially you are doing ok otherwise you would of not of bought it. I would shoot and enjoy it. You live once, and to think you bought a material object and not be able (or want to) to enjoy the fruits of your labor seems kind of counterintuitive. So what if you put a little wear on the gun. In the grand scheme of life, who cares.

 

Excellent

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If you are looking at it as an investment, then no, dont shoot it. But obviously financially you are doing ok otherwise you would of not of bought it. I would shoot and enjoy it. You live once, and to think you bought a material object and not be able (or want to) to enjoy the fruits of your labor seems kind of counterintuitive. So what if you put a little wear on the gun. In the grand scheme of life, who cares.

 

"...shoot and enjoy..."

 

I submit that one doesn't require the other. Comicon nerds routinely buy toys they'll never play with. Still pristine in their original packaging, they bring the owners more pleasure than tearing open the box and reciting "Pew Pew!! Luke, I am your Father! Nooooooo!!!" will. Likewise, I've amassed a panoply of Morgan Dollars I'll never spend at the grocery store. There are plenty of car enthusiasts who own vehicles that will never be driven farther than to & from their trailer. My hunting buddy has shotguns he'll reverently gaze upon but never shoot, and others that get tossed into a bag then likewise tossed into his truck.

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All valid comments....appreciated. I used to tell myself "no safe queens" ! If you don't shoot it, then sell or trade it. That is the case for 95+% of my guns. For example, when I buy a pre-ban AK, I'm looking for the well-cared for shooter......not the perfect NIB with all accy's, in the box..... that has never been shot. I can enjoy, and not lose 20% value just to shoot it. I respect NIB collectors, but that's not for me. Kinda' like the difference between boat-owners.......and true boaters.

 

I assume the experience of shooting a correct and intact 1921 Tommy would be different than my 28WH or M1, given the very different bolt and recoil set-up. My Savage M1 is my favorite, despite the occasional burns on my finger-tips. So, I will shoot the '21, carefully....just not as often as the workhorses. Maybe on special occasions - or to share with a fellow range rat who also has never had the chance to shoot an original 1921, as others have done for me over the years with their one-off's.

 

Bottom-line, the refinished sides are very well done (I'm not experienced enough to know the difference, but was fully advised, by the seller), the butt-stock is correct, as are all internals. It looks like a well-cared for shooter. I thought I got it at a fair price, for a Colt. Seller made a few bucks (I checked the Hammer price at Morphy's) and I agree with the other poster, that it did seem to go low at Morphy's in 10-2018.

 

As mentioned by TD, it was one of four behind glass at the sellers table, at the Creek. The other three were 1928A1's, offered in the high 20's, so the Colt seemed like best the overall deal in the mid 30's, and could be e-file F3'd. After talking with the seller for a while, he figured I wasn't just another a goober who wanted to hold and finger-f**k his girl, and was serious about buying it..... So, he let me get a closer look, pull the stock, check the numbers matched and slid-off the lower to assure me no-one slipped in some 28 parts..... It is now at my SOT here in FL, and maybe with a little luck, I can take it home in 7-8 months.......

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