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#1 mp40

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 08:10 PM

Remember the deactivated 1928 Thompson on ebay? you know, the one in Russia? well...the eventual winning bidders (not just one 1928 was being auctioned mind you) in the USA.....ACTUALLY RECEIVED THEM! Now, I don't know how the U.S. customs agents missed these and the PPS 43 that also made it into the US...perhaps the eventual recipients where class 2? Well, the seller has more of these "toys" for sale..how many more U.S. bidders are risking prison life? pretty scary huh?
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#2 Norm

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 07:58 PM

mp40,

I was as puzzled as you are, but I think (can't be sure) that these people did not actually get a truely deactivated Thompson. There is a company in Russia that is making nice non-firing reproductions that are made on dummy recievers.

I have seen one for sale on gunbroker.com. It had a picture of the box it came in. The box has Cyrillic writing on it. In the top left corner it has the word "HOBNHAK." (pronounced: NAH-veen-kuh) This is Russian for "novelty item" or "not real", depending on it's use in a sentence. (And they told me learning Russian would never come in handy! wink.gif )

This is just an educated guess. You could very well be correct that some people are actually getting DEWAT's in the mail. I will stay as far away from those deals as I can get.

ohmy.gif No prison, No problem! ohmy.gif

Here is the link to the auction.....

http://www.gunbroker...p?Item=12015000

Norm
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#3 full auto 45

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Posted 19 September 2003 - 08:04 PM

Huh. They have a M1 with no cocking handle on the box and a 1928 model in front of the box. Silly Ruskies!
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#4 Guest_gunsm_*

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 11:45 AM

As far as i now (and i have three of them here in russia), theese tommys have unaltered both receivers, and therefore may be illegal in USA. Thats stuff made in Ukraine (former Soviet Union) from WW2 real guns by milling some part of bolt, barrel, and magazine. It's legal here. "HOBNHKA" - on the box is just for NEW ON THE MARKET, just one box for 28A1 and 28M1. To be alive again they just need a new bolt, barrel change and magazine.

Hope this helps, and sorry for my bad english.
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#5 Norm

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 12:08 PM

gunsm,

Your English is very good. If what you say is true (and I do not doubt you), then these guns are VERY illegal here! ohmy.gif I am glad to know that someone could actually tell us first hand what these guns are.

"Spasibo Bolshoe"

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#6 Guest_gunsm_*

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 12:56 PM

Norm,

By the way, look the at link http://www.military-...ua/index_en.htm
This is company that sell these models in Ukraine, and look at their prices and famous box smile.gif
(Some pages in russian)

/Eugene

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#7 mp40

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 09:54 PM

Now what really bothers me is a little over a year ago, i bought a "browning" hi-power modelgun from a store in Japan..Customs seized it. mostly because it didn't have the required orange muzzle markings and it had illegal copy-righted trade-marks. now this "gun" was plastic and obviously being made out of plastic...it could have not been a real gun.Now if my modelgun was found and seized...how are these dewatts making it into the U.S. un-detected?
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#8 Ron Mills

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 10:31 PM

Eugene: Thank you for all of your very good information. I just read some really disturbing things on a PPSh-41 site the other day: The ATF is finding and seizing Inter Ordinance PPSh kits. We're talking coming to your door and getting them. Something to do with the trunion. 3,800 kits or so. Yikes! It's great that we have these forums to spread the word on what's cool and what can land you in jail.

mp40: On the subject of modelguns that are "too close" (factory markings, etc.): I have an MGC M76 (S&W copy). Ebay forbids those to be listed, and S&W is adamant about it as well. Now, I agree with you 110%---it's a plastic model! It can't shoot anything! So, how indeed are those illegal dewats from Europe making it in here??? I made up a saying a while ago that I told my kids: "There are slackers in every job description". That may include customs agents. I hope not.
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#9 Sgt

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 11:22 PM

Looking on the bright side, at least we have a few more Thompson parts added to our limited U.S. supply. However, this case does set a bad precedence.
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#10 mp40

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Posted 23 September 2003 - 11:25 PM

Hi Ron, you wheren't trying to sell your MGC where you on ebay where you? Also, do you "shoot" your MGC M76? they are fun and yes, I too have heard that Smith&Wesson has a very low-tolorance level when dealing with any replica gun manufacturer that tries to make a replica of any of their guns. They do allow the Japanese to produce (legally licenced by S&W) modelguns and airsoft guns but for domestic consumption only! As for the Thompsons, I would love to have one of those russian "dewatts" but I don't really want to see the inside of a prison! Oh well, I guess I will stick to the semi "Thompsons" and my MGC "thompson"for now, while i am still living in Washington state.
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#11 yp_777

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 07:23 AM

And here comes the seller...

Hello, All.

One of my US friends forwarded me a link to your forum, and I think I should add some "insider" information to this discussion.

1) It is true that the original upper receiver of my de-acts. is NOT cut (at least so far), which makes it illegal in your country, and I never hid this fact. However, I won't agree with Eugene that "...to be alive again they just need a new bolt, barrel change, and magazine". The gun contains NO functional parts at all, and to make them alive again, you will have to change ALL parts, except for the wooden ones.

2) When I offered one of my de-acts. at e-bay for the first time, I was kindly informed of the illegality of selling these guns to the US. I cancelled the bid one US buyer made by that time, and posted a "No US buyers" disclaimer at the auction. However, I received a few very insistent requests from the US-based buyers to sell them such a gun, despite all warnings - 10 years in prison, or USD 100,000 fine, or both. I do not know which licences they had, if any, but the de-acts., including TSMGs, were received OK. Some of them (especially the PPSh-41 buyers) claimed they contacted the BATF and warned them of their purchases. This is not bull, just check my e-bay feedback.

3) My e-bay auctions, especially for TSMGs, are not intended for the US. These guns sell nicely all over the world, namely: Japan, UK, Canada. Also I put a very strong disclaimer to warn off the US buyers.

4) I send my de-acts. by regular air-mail. I declare them as de-activated guns. No loopholes or miracles.
I shipped almost 20 de-acts. in the US.

5) It is in my best intention to help collectors all over the world, and currently I am working to find a way for my de-acts. to be legal in the US.

I am open for further communication.

Sincerely,

yp_777




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#12 Ron Mills

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 09:38 AM

Thanks for the recent lengthy posts regarding the legalities. I feel better about these forums all the time and we all can learn a great deal from them. Not that they were weak before, but it gets more interesting as time goes on! I too wish yp_777 and Eugene well and thanks again to PhilOhio for the dissertaion on the possible arrest clause. Pretty serious stuff, this "watch list".
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#13 Bob

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 11:35 AM

No, much faster! it's about 250rpm biggrin.gif

1200 rpm .22 Thompson....OhhhhAwwww gotta git one!
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#14 Martin@MGK

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 12:28 PM

The watch list is definately real. I am a class 2 manufacturer (I build machineguns) in the US and I sometimes import parts that are a whole lot cheaper in other countries than they are here. This is all done legally with direct and explicit approval of the ATF. I submit a Form 6 EVERY time I want to import a part. Well the last time I came back from France, I was ask by US Customs if I had any gun parts with me. I didn't and politely told the agent so. He called his supervisor over who then pulled me out of line and spent roughly 20 minutes hassling me, scanning my bags, etc. The supervisor would switch from offering to take it easy on me if I told him about any parts I had, to threatening me with all kinds of nastyness if he found any parts I hadn't told him about.

The guy finally let me go and I barely made my connecting flight. I was seriously pissed about it because the only reason I can figure I am on the list is because I follow all the stupid laws required to legally import machinegun parts. I build automatic weapons for law enforcement agencies throughout the US and haven't had ANY trouble with the law since I was cited for underage drinking 15 years ago. I haven't even had a speeding ticked in 10 years! I would hate to think what I would have gone through had I actually been caught doing something I wasn't suppose to.
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#15 Guest_gunsm_*

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 12:32 PM

yp_777,

Just for my knowledge, what modifications was made for lower receiver and trigger group that can prevent thompson firing full auto, and allow cocking and releasing of bolt ?

All ukrainian thompsons DEWATS that i know, did't have any modifications other that statet above and small pin (easily removed) preventing barrel change.


/Eugene

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#16 Bob

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Posted 24 September 2003 - 04:38 PM

Here is a guy that tried to bend the regs a bit.

Mike Kelly

Took about five years for the feds to bend him over the barrel...
When I first talked to Mike he said it was perfectly legal to take saw cut receivers and weld them back together. I told him I did not see how that was possible...guess I was right all along.

Now, how long before the Thompson receivers, improperly demilled or whatever, gets the new owner in the same spot as Mike?

Oh ya,
I forgot how hard it is to trace shipping records from overseas laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
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#17 Mike45

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Posted 26 September 2003 - 03:11 PM

I talked to someone (C2)who rec'd one of the 28's. I think he freaked out when it showed up in a box with big pic of what was in the box. He immediately cranked up the saw & cried big tears on the hot steel. He said that mail time was 2 1/2 mo.
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#18 Walter63a

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Posted 27 September 2003 - 11:19 AM

Fear And Loathing! blink.gif ohmy.gif mad.gif Enough said, Walter
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