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Reproduction Thompson Accessories Reference Guide


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#1 dalbert

dalbert

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 02:04 PM

These materials are protected by copyright and other intellectual property laws.
Copyright 2008, 2009, 2010 © David Albert


All,

This list is provided as a reference for collectors who may consider purchasing certain Thompson accessories which have been reproduced in the past, or are currently reproduced. This is a living list that will be updated periodically. Some reproduction items have been marked in a way as to provide easy identification, while many are not marked in this manner. Both types will be listed here.

The list is not meant to discredit anyone who produces an unmarked reproduction, but it exists to aid a collector who might encounter such an item being represented as original. Reproduction items represented as originals, whether purposeful or not, is a problem that extends into many collector communities, including those outside of firearms. Manufacturers have the ability to change this trend through the use of makers marks and dates on their products, and are highly encouraged to mark their reproduction items so that they cannot easily be mistaken for, or represented as originals.

Many Thompson reproductions exist that are highly sought after, such as finely crafted Thompson cases. Some beautiful reproductions exist that are well known currently, but in the future, they might blur the line between original and reproduction. This list exists to help identify the differences between the originals and reproductions.

If you would like to submit an item for inclusion, please e-mail David Albert at dalbert@sturmgewehr.com. A picture and description will be necessary for consideration. Thank you for your contributions to this thread -- your participation is appreciated by myself and other collectors.

Please note: Also included in this pinned post is The American Thompson Association (TATA) Reproduction Thompson Item Standard, which provides an avenue and standard for marking of reproduction Thompson items.

This reproduction item pinned post is organized as follows:

1. Paper Items
2. Thompson Spare Parts
3. Cloth Items and Web Gear
4. Metal Accessories
5. Thompson Cases
6. The American Thompson Association (TATA) Reproduction Thompson Item Standard

Update: In August 2010, David Albert presented a lecture at The American Thompson Association Show and Shoot, sponsored by the Tracie Hill family. The lecture presentation is now the most updated resource documenting reproduction Thompson items. It will be updated periodically. The presentation is available for download by visiting the following link on this board:

http://www.machinegu...showtopic=12358


Reproduction Thompson Paper Items

1. 1923 Auto-Ordnance Catalog:

The 1923 Auto-Ordnance Catalog is one of the oldest reproduction Thompson items in existence. Original examples are extremely rare, and many collectors who believe their catalog original are mistaken. In the early 1960's Numrich Arms reprinted the 1923 Auto-Ordnance Catalog with excellent detail, including raised lettering on the cover. A detailed comparison of a reproduction catalog to an original is contained in the following post by dalbert on 1/28/2007:

http://www.machinegu...hl=1923 catalog

Rare, Original 1923 Auto-Ordnance Catalog:

Copy%20of%20USPatent_1923_Catalog-1.JPG
David Albert Collection

2. 4th Edition TSMG Handbooks:

This is an example of early marking of a reproduction item to indicate to future collectors that it is a reproduction. Frontier Press published reproductions of the 1929 Catalog, as well as the 4th Edition Handbook of the Thompson Submachine Gun in 1969. These are easy to recognize, because inside the front cover is printed "© 1969 Frontier Press."

Here is a scan of the front cover of the reproduction 4th Edition Handbook:

4thEdRepro.JPG

Here is a scan of the Frontier Press marking that appears on the second page:

4thEdReproFrontierMark.JPG
Above Images David Albert Collection

3. 1929 Auto-Ordnance Catalogs:

The 1929 Auto-Ordnance Catalog in original form is an awesome example of early Thompson literature, and is printed on oversize paper, measuring 9" x 12". Only one known reproduction exists that matches the size of the original. That particular reproduction was published by Ray Riling Arms Co., and is easy to spot, because the publisher printed their name on the inside, and numbered them from 1 to 500. Some originals also feature E.E. Richardson distributor information at the bottom of the cover page.

Here is a picture of the maker's mark inside the Ray Riling Arms Co. reproduction 1929 Auto-Ordnance Catalog:

Riling1929Cat.JPG
Tracie Hill collection

Another reproduction is marked to indicate so, and was published by Frontier Press in 1969. The repro catalog measure 8 1/2" x 11", as it was printed in normal paper size. The title page is marked "© 1969 Frontier Press" in the lower right hand corner. One other way to tell at a glance if it is original is to note whether the ink is brown or black. Originals were printed in black ink. Reproductions also have a "2nd generation" appearance to the illustrations, while the originals feature crisp, plate printing.

Here is a picture of the Frontier Press reproduction 1929 Auto-Ordnance Catalog:

1929-Frontier-1.JPG

Here is a picture of the reproduction marking at the bottom right of the title page:

1929-Frontier-2.JPG
Above Images David Albert Collection

4. Instruction Sheet Envelopes:

A reproduction was made of the Thompson Instruction Sheet and Envelope sometime in the 1980's or early 1990's, produced by a member of this board. These are pretty easy to identify as reproductions by the measurement of the envelope.

The photo below shows an original on top, and the larger reproduction version on the bottom. The original measures 5 1/4" x 8". The reproduction measures 9 1/8" x 5 15/16". Additionally, the original envelopes appear older in style, and the example in my collection has a manufacturer's marking on the reverse of the envelope as follows:



Columbian Natural Clasp No. 45N
Pat. 1,290,083 Pat. 1,593,040
The United States Envelope Co. Springfield, Mass.
5 1/4 x 8


Additionally, the font and spacing are different, with the reproduction font being a more modern style.

Thompson%20Directions%20Compar%20copy.JP
David Albert Collection

5. 1936 Auto-Ordnance Catalogs:

There are 4 versions of the 1936 Auto-Ordnance Catalog. Actually, the first catalog of this style was produced sometime around 1934, but the 3 later catalogs of the same design bear a 1936 date. Numrich Arms has reprinted the catalog frequently, and there is a telltale characteristic that can be used to identify the later reproductions. If the trigger of the bottom Thompson illustrated on the front of the catalog does not intersect the target line, then it is a reproduction.

Here is a link to an example of a reproduction 1936 Auto-Ordnance Catalog:
(Notice how the trigger of the bottom Thompson does not intersect the target line)

http://www.sturmgewe...d_Catalog-2.jpg

Here is a link to an example of an original 1936 Auto-Ordnance Catalog:
(Notice how the trigger of the bottom Thompson does intersect the target line)

http://www.sturmgewe...-Original_2.jpg

6. Blue 1940 Auto-Ordnance Thompson Handbooks:

All 1940 Auto-Ordnance Handbooks with a blue cover are reproductions of unknown origin.

Here is a link to an example of a blue reproduction 1940 Auto-Ordnance Handbook.

http://www.sturmgewe...n1940Repro2.jpg

7. Gale and Polden Manuals - The Thompson Mechanism Made Easy:

Gale and Polden published 2 versions of a Thompson manual during World War II for British Home Guard units. They were excellent manuals with high quality pictures. Both originals have orange covers, with the first being a medium orange color with a pronounced embossed pattern, sort of like a fingerprint, on the cover stock. The second version had a heavy construction paper cover in a lighter color orange, without an embossed pattern. Reproductions have been published in a bright orange color (almost fluorescent), and there is also a version with a red cover currently available. The reproduction versions are second generation copies of the originals, and while their quality is good, the reproduction of several of the images is very obviously inferior to the originals.

Here is a link to a scan of a reproduction Gale and Polden Thompson manual:
(Notice the bright orange cover color)

http://www.sturmgewe...gs/GPManual.JPG

Here is a link to the parts diagram in an original Gale and Polden Thompson manual:
(Notice the definition of the picture, such as where the grip mount meets the frame)

http://www.sturmgewe...al_DiagOrig.JPG

Here is a link to the same parts diagram in the reproduction Gale and Polden Thompson manual:
(Notice the loss of definition)

http://www.sturmgewe...l_DiagRepro.JPG

8. TM 9-1215 - Technical Manual for M1928A1 Thompson Submachine Gun, March 1, 1942:

Any edition of TM 9-1215 for the M1928A1 Thompson Submachine gun dated March 1, 1942 that features the image of a Thompson on the cover is a reproduction. These technical manual copies are probably the most common Thompson reproduction item in existence.

ReproTM9_1215.jpg

Reproduction Spare Parts

1. Colt Thompson Spare Parts:

This listing is intended to provide awareness regarding potential reproduction Colt Thompson spare parts. With the very high price of original Colt Thompsons, parts sets, and individual spare parts, it should be noted that some WWII parts are known to have have been modified by individuals to look like Colt parts. Such efforts as welding over the manufacturer marks, re-machining, re-bluing, and otherwise modifying the part to appear to be original Colt have occurred. These parts may appear to be new old stock. There is no universal way to detect these. In general, provenance, and the number of parts present for sale are some ways to better guarantee originality, but the buyer should be very careful, and if the price is high, and the deal does not "feel right,", then the buyer should beware that the item might not be original.

2. Remington Anchor Marked Buttstocks:

Original Colt Thompson buttstocks were made by Remington, and marked with a characteristic anchor stamping at the front end. As of at least December 2009, a reproduction, unfinished buttstock has been observed for sale in the market that is absent any markings to differentiate it from an original. I approached the seller about marking the stocks out of sight with a maker's mark to aid in their identification as reproductions, but no response was made to the request, and at this point, these stocks have entered the market, and collectors will have to use common sense and experience to determine if any "Colt Thompson" buttstock is truly original. These new stocks will probably not be prevalent, and the ability to easily determine their status as a reproduction will most likely remain fairly easily discernible in the short term, but their status as reproductions may blur with time, and anyone purchasing a buttstock should remain aware of these reproductions. A couple of characteristics that were observed by "full auto 45" on the board about the reproduction tocks are the rough "almost hand cuts" on the butt plate area that appear to be chiseled, and also the mill marks where the slide goes in are rougher than normal. Original stocks are not as rough around the edges in both these areas.

3. Flat Ejectors:

A reproduction M1921/28 flat ejector is currently marketed for $60 from two sources. It is a well made part, and is useful as a spare, replacement, or installed in a display Thompson. There are slight differences between the originals and reproductions that can aid in identification as detailed in the photos.

The original flat ejector in the photo was made by Savage. (hence the S) Colt ejectors are unmarked. Note the milling marks on the reproduction ejector that are perpendicular to the long profile of the ejector. (Photo by Reconbob)

Ejectors1.jpg

4. 1921 Actuators:

A few years ago, some unmarked 1921 style actuators of Swedish manufacture were offered for sale as pilot/actuator/spring sets for about $400. Most were blued, and at least one was left "in the white," due to bad knurling, as seen in the picture links.

http://www.sturmgewe...uatorSwede1.jpg

http://www.sturmgewe...uatorSwede2.JPG

http://www.sturmgewe...uatorSwede3.jpg

A company by the name of E.F. Precision also produced about 200 of a 1921 actuator that is difficult to tell from an original, except that the knob checkering was made at a 60 degree angle, versus the original 90 degree angle of Colt actuators. (The preceding information, and the picture below were supplied by Doug Richardson)

1921ActuatorRepro_Web.JPG

Doug Richardson currently produces 1921 actuators that are as close to the original Colt actuators as possible, and they are marked with an "R" as his manufacturing mark on the side of the actuator.

5. Lyman "L" Type Rear Sights:

Original, adjustable Lyman rear sights command a premium price as replacements for West Hurley rear sights, or for display on dummy Thompsons. Most of the Russian parts sets contain the original Lyman sights, which can be sold separately for $200-$300. As a result, certain sellers have resorted to making a reproduction "L" type sight to include in their parts sets, so they can offer the original, adjustable Lyman sights for sale separately. By doing so, they are still able to sell "complete parts sets." The "L" type sights were introduced as a cost and time saving measure for ease of manufacture during WWII. The reproduction "L" sights are stamped "Lyman," but they exhibit manufacturing techniques that were not available during WWII. Some characteristics of the sights are that they appear unused, and the "Lyman" marking is deeper than on the originals. The sights are blued and polished, and they do not have the light checkering around the aperture that is present on most WWII examples. They have very clean edges, because they were more than likely cut with a laser.

The following are comparison pictures of original and reproduction Lyman "L" type rear sights:

Original Lyman aperture is checkered:
LymanL2.JPG

Reproduction "Lyman" is not checkered:
FakeLyman3.jpg

Original Lyman marking:
LymanL.JPG

Another Original Lyman marking:
LymanLMiddlefield_Web.JPG
Photo courtesy TD

Reproduction Lyman marking:
FakeLyman1.jpg

In this photo note the rounded corner of the sight. (red arrow) This original
sight has a corner round that goes 90 degrees encompassing the full corner.
You can compare it to the contours of the reproduction Lyman sight above.
LymanL3.jpg

In this photo of 3 original sights you can see the rough edge left from
pressing or stamping the part from a sheet of steel. The edge has the
appearance of a fracture line and you will see an edge like this on any
stamped steel part unless the edge is machined, polished, etc.
LymanL4.jpg

The sights in the photo below have a much smoother edge which is the type
of edge produced when cutting with a laser. It is a cut edge, not a fracture
line.
FakeLyman2.jpg

Reproduction Cloth Items and Web Gear

1/03/10 - Please note! If you are considering the purchase of a WWII era "original" article of web gear, please be aware of a seller on Ebay who is marketing ink stamps that duplicate some original manufacturer marks, and also original government marks such as "USMC." I can see no reason other than intended deception for the existence and dissemination of these new stamps, and I want to alert as many colllectors as possible to their existence. Examples of the stamps include "USMC," "US," "Boyt 42," "1942," and various others. A reproduction stamping of "B.B. Inc" from a different seller has also been observed in combination with a WWII date, applied to some of the Russian Lend-Lease Thompson 5-Cell XX Magazine Pouches.

1. Kerr Slings:

The Sportsman's Guide, International Military Antiques, and What Price Glory currently sell reproduction mustard colored Kerr slings that are convincingly close to the originals. Some of the reproduction slings are marked "U.S.," perpendicular to the sling. Many of these slings also have areas of light rust on the metal parts, which is also a characteristic of some originals. The new reproduction slings prompt a new level of awareness that should be taken when considering an "original" sling purchase.

The pictures below illustrate the known differences between original and reproduction slings. The key point in identifying a reproduction sling appears to be the presence of split rivets. Out of 8 original slings observed, none demonstrated split rivets, and all rivets covered the holes completely and neatly. Reproductions observed all had split rivets, and some did not completely cover the holes. It is uncertain whether the split rivet characteristic is a metallurgical difference, or perhaps a better rivet swage die was used on the originals. Originals did not have gold colored hardware, such as the reproduction sling shown on the right.

SlingsFront_Web.JPG
SlingsBack_Web1.JPG
SlingClose_Web.JPG
Above Images Bridgeport28A1 Collection

2. Action Covers:

International Military Antiques and at least one other source are currently selling reproduction Thompson action covers. Most of the originals are very fragile, stained, and have stiff canvas with verdigris on the brass snaps. The reproductions are brand new, and are stamped "A.V.S. 1943" on the inside of the cover, as pictured below.

IMA_Cover-1.JPG
David Albert Collection

3. Canvas Drum and Magazine Pouches:

In the 1970's, canvas drum and magazine pouches were reintroduced by Numrich/Auto-Ordnance. They produced a series of dark green nylon pouches for C and L drums, and XXX magazines. These are still available and are useful for the shooter and collector alike. Around the late 1990's, Sarco, IMA and others reproduced the canvas L drum, XX five cell, and the XXX three cell pouches of the WWII period for reenactors. Quality is good and the weave of the canvas is such that they look slightly different than original examples. Collectors should remain aware of the price differences. It is important for collectors to recognize the differences between reproductions/fakes and originals. Values for an original can be several hundred dollars, versus a few dollars for a fake. "Wharton MFG, Co" produces a brand new reproduction pouch made by a company by the name of Bayonet Canvas Co. This company runs a web site at www.bayonetinc.com. They have a reproduction item marking standard that can be applied to anyone making reproduction items. Bayonet Canvas states "We mark all of our gear with two different maker marks which are totally fake and we also stamp our company name and the year the item was made in some hidden spot on the gear, this is so if you know what your looking at you won’t get ripped off by some scam artist saying it is a mint original piece. Here are the maker marks we use."

"Bayonet Canvas Co."
"Wharton Mfg, Co."
"W.M.CO."

It is refreshing to see someone making reproduction equipment who is proud enough to put their own marks on the gear and to stand up and be counted. This is a practice that many other reproduction manufacturers could learn from and apply to their own products. (Canvas drum and magazine pouch reproduction section courtesy of Tracie Hill)

A Few Words About Reproduction Canvas Items:

Several vendors reproduce and/or sell selected Thompson canvas items, mostly for the WWII reenacting market. While useful and authentic in appearance, they can add confusion to the collector. Some are marked similarly to original WWII products, and without knowing which marks belong to reproductions, the collector could end up buying a reproduction represented, or mistaken for, an original. For a collector to understand the scope of reproduction canvas items currently marketed, they should familiarize themselves with the following vendors, all of whom have an online presence.

All Made Ups
At The Front
Bayonet Inc.
Epic Militaria
I.M.A. (International Military Antiques)
Pacific Canvas & Leather (They make reproductions of the "COVER THOMPSON SUB-MACHINE GUN CAL. .45 D50268" for full and semi-auto Thompsons, which they call "Contour Cases.")
The Sportsman's Guide
Sunshine Exports (India Manufacturer, makes 5-cell XX Thompson Magazine Pouches and 3-Cell Reising Pouches)
What Price Glory
WWII Impressions

Here is a list of known reproduction maker's marks:

A.P.Co. 1943 (Observed on a Thompson Magazine Pouch, and a canteen cover, both marketed as repros)
Bayonet Canvas Co.
E.M. Saddlery Co. 1942
Hoff Mfg. Co. 1942 (Observed on reproduction M1911 Magazine Pouch)
HT&C
K&S Co. 1942 (Chinese Manufacturer, observed on 5-Cell XX Magazine Pouch - They also make a 5-Cell XXX Magazine Pouch)
Medcorp Saddle Co.
Medcorp Saddlery Co.
Wharton Mfg, Co.
W.M.CO.
WPG Canvas Co. (What Price Glory maker's mark)

A company called "At The Front" markets many high quality, general WWII reproduction web accessories which the collector should remain keenly aware of, including one Thompson Magazine Bag. Here are some of the At The Front reproduction maker markings:

Crawford Canvas Co. 1942 (This marking appears on their reproduction Thompson Magazine Bag)
Crawford Tent & Awning Co., Manufactured in 1942
Crawford Tent Co. 1942

(The above marks should not be confused with "Crawford Mfg. Co., Inc.," who manufactured some canvas products during WWII. The picture below shows an original marking on a musette bag manufactured by that company in 1941.)
crawfordbagback_web.JPG
Image Courtesy Roscoe Turner

Harian 1944 (Harian may have been an OEM, but At The Front markets a reproduction U.S. Assault Vest with their name as the maker's mark, so exercise caution with determination of originality of items encountered bearing this name.)
Kirkman Mfg. 1941, 1942
Langdon Tent & Awning Co. 1942 (Langdon was an OEM, but At The Front markets a reproduction M1928 Haversack with their name as the maker's mark, so exercise caution with determination of originality of items encountered bearing this name.)
SEMS Inc. 1942

Please educate yourself as much as possible about available reproductions when considering the purchase of an "original" canvas item. Some reproduction items are already being mistaken for originals, as can be seen on the French website below, which is a guide to U.S. web equipment, and lists Crawford as an OEM. (From the "At The Front" website, Crawford (and Kirkman) are apparently the last names of two of the employees who currently make the reproduction canvas items)

http://wing.chez-ali..._equipment.html

Another online retailer to remain aware of is "What Price Glory." They serve the WWII reenacting hobby with many high quality reproductions, and they are not prone to marking their equipment by an easily identifiable maker's mark. A collector should familiarize themselves with their online inventory, where claims such as "These reproductions are virtually indistinguishable from originals" are made, and are confusingly true. The company markets one reproduction WWII Thompson 5-Cell XX Magazine Pouch, for which I do not have an example to compare. If anyone has purchased one, and would like to share pictures, I will post them here. They also market reproduction Kerr slings.

I thought it would be interesting to post a statement that a manufacturer of reproduction canvas items in India features on their website. This is from Sunshine Exports, and gives us a perspective on the ease with which reproduction canvas items can be procured, ending up in the marketplace for collectors to determine originality.

Their website states: "We are manufacturing all kinds of bags, pouches, cases, covers, belts and other accessories used by soldiers, police and other forces to carry their beholdings and equipments. These are made of industrial fabrics such as canvas, duck, belting cloth etc. Special craftsmanship and skill is required for such kind of fabrication and so we have expertese in this. All the articles are very exclusive and can be custom made as per requirement. Our directors are manufacturing of Industrial Fabrics since 1972 and supplying to many buyers in India and Nepal. We fabricate articles made of Industrial Fabrics as per drawings and specification and can also develop sample looking to the buyers requirements from R& D department."

Reproduction Magazine Pouch Warning Message courtesy of Roscoe Turner

This past weekend I removed magazines that had been stored in a reproduction pouch in my safe. After removing that I found that they had rusted in the pouch. Nothing usual about that except it appeared to be more from a reaction to the chemical dye used in the material than from moisture. I can all but rule out moisture due to the fact these pouches were stored in a safe using a Golden Rod that keeps the humidity at a safe level. Magazines that were stored in original pouches did not show any signs of rust including those that had been in the safe a number of years.

Being in the reproduction business after a conversation with the forum owner I had requested these pouches from a supplier in India to judge their authenticity and quality. After determining that these pouches could not be confused with originals I used them to store my range magazines. These magazines had been wiped down with G96 and stored in the pouches only a few weeks. The rust was very deep and in spots on all sides of the magazines. The pouches had remained on a book shelf for a number of months before I used them for the magazine storage and there was no way they could have gotten wet from where they were.

The pouches I have are identical to those sold by IMA and a number of other companies. I would not leave magazines in those pouches without a barrier such as wax paper.

The preceding message courtesy of Roscoe Turner

Here is an example of a reproduction L-Drum pouch, compared to an original. These reproductions were recently sold by The Sportsman's Guide, and other sources.

Canvas_Web.JPG
Photo courtesy Bridgeport28A1

The light colored, reproduction canvas L-drum covers appear to have been washed, and exposed to metal to produce rust, which lends an artificially aged appearance.

ReproLInside.jpg
Photo courtesy Bridgeport28A1

Reproduction Metal Accessories

1. Metal Spare Parts Container:

If you are considering purchasing an "original" metal spare parts container for a Model of 1921 Thompson Submachine Gun, you should study as many as possible prior to your purchase. Originals with parts included often sell for $6K+. A newly made metal spare parts container is currently on the market that very closely resembles the original, and costs about $250. The new boxes can be mistaken for originals. No markings on the boxes indicate they are reproduction items.

Parts_Boxes-2_Web.JPG

Inside both an original, and a reproduction Spare Parts Container: (Original on bottom)

Parts_Boxes_web.JPG

An observed difference is illustrated in the pictures below. The rivet that holds the box latching mechanism appears smaller, and perhaps hand fitted to the original, while the reproduction box rivet is larger, more rounded, and taller in profile.

MSPK%20-%20Original%20copy.JPG
MSPK%20Reproduction%20copy.JPG

2. Taiwanese Crosby L-Drums:

Around 2006, a Taiwanese company was contracted by an American company to reproduce L-Drums, and about 200 were produced and sold initially. The drums worked well, and were marked in the same manner as the World War II Crosby drums. The drums are blued, and their markings appear slightly less crisp and deep when compared to original Crosby drums. After some controversy regarding the markings, subsequent drum markings were changed, an example of which I do not have currently. The drum in the picture below arrived well-oiled, inside two plastic bags, packaged in the fiber-board box pictured. Apparently these drums were not internally greased at the factory, which is another characteristic which may aid in identification. The newer versions of these drums sell for around $170 currently.

ReproCrosby.JPG
David Albert Collection

Here are some links to the reproduction Crosby L-Drum markings:

http://www.sturmgewe...sbyMarking1.JPG

http://www.sturmgewe...sbyMarking2.JPG

3. Long Type Thompson Cleaning Rods:

A very well made "long type" Thompson cleaning rod is currently marketed for $110 that appears almost identical to the original. It is a reproduction of the type of cleaning rod found in the top of FBI Thompson cases.

An initial comparison was made of one original, and one reproduction "long type" cleaning rod. The cleaning rod at the top of the picture is the original, and the one on the bottom is the reproduction. Subtle differences were observed in profile, internal measurements, and most noticeably, the position and internal shape of the slot. Cleaning%20Rod%20compare.JPG

4. Nickel Oilers:

Original nickel oilers from the Colt era are desirable collector items. During World War II, similar oilers with a black crinkle finish were manufactured, and are readily available today. At some point, probably on multiple occasions, someone took WWII era oilers, removed the black finish, and nickeled them to appear similar to the Colt era nickel oilers. The original oilers have a distinct "Made In USA" stamp on them, located at the ring around the top of the oiler, where the cap can be removed. Most World War II era oilers also have the "Made In USA" stamp, but it is much less distinct.

Here are two photos of original nickel oilers:
Orgnickel1.jpg
Photo courtesy gijive
Orgnickel2.jpg
Photo courtesy gijive

This photo shows a World War II era oiler in the front that has been bead blasted and nickeled. An original oiler is pictured behind it. The difference in size is due to the photo perspective; they are the same size.
Orgnickel3.jpg
Photo courtesy gijive

Some other comparison photos:
Orgnickel4.jpg
Photo courtesy gijive
Orgnickel5.jpg
Photo courtesy gijive

Reproduction Thompson Cases

Several reproduction Thompson FBI style cases, and other styles exist that are currently manufactured on a limited basis by some very talented individuals for collectors. These cases are sought after, and most appear fairly new, and are unlikely to be mistaken for an original of 70+ years ago. Swetnam was an original manufacturer, and their maker label has been reproduced and used on the newer cases to add to their authenticity. Some original cases have also been repaired, and may appear fairly new, depending upon the level of restoration. When shopping for an original case, provenance should be considered, as well as common sense. Original cases can cost up to 10x the price of a reproduction case.

Robert Necessary has manufactured reproduction Thompson FBI, Police, Alabama, and Bank Guard style cases since the 1970's. All cases Bob has manufactured over the years have his signature under the felt, but it would require removal of the felt to verify. Most of his cases feature a maker's mark sticker as follows:

Label.JPG

A reproduction Police Thompson case by Robert Necessary:
caselower_web.JPG

More cases by Robert Necessary can be viewed at the following link: (Select "Slide Show" in upper right hand corner)
http://s452.photobuc...48/rat-tat-tat/

The American Thompson Association (TATA) Reproduction Thompson Item Standard

The American Thompson Association is a group of collectors dedicated to preserving the history, collecting, and promoting the safe operation of legal Thompson Submachine Guns. The club has a responsibility to future collectors, and recognizes that many artifacts and accessories associated with the Thompson are reproduced, or have been reproduced in the past. As a result, TATA assumes a stewardship role for future collectors, who, upon encountering reproduction items now and in the future, may not be able to reasonably determine their originality. This can have the effect of reducing collector value of original specimens, as well as present unintended (or intended) ethical issues among the Thompson collector community.
The American Thompson Association adopts a standard consisting of marking any new Thompson Submachine Gun reproduction items with a name or other distinguishable identifying mark that indicate the manufacturing entity, and at least the year of manufacture. The marking should be easily visible, and made in a manner that the item can be readily identifiable as a reproduction, such as die stamping in metal, firmly stamped wood markings, readily accessible publisher marks inside the front page of a paper item, permanently painted markings on canvas material, or other reasonable and permanent marking method. (An example for stock markings is to mark such items under the buttplate, and on top of the grip, as these are already standard methods, and will not detract cosmetically from their presentation on a Thompson.)

TATA members must comply to the standard, and any reproduction item made by a member after notification of the adoption of the new standard in the club newsletter should be marked according to the TATA reproduction marking standard. (Failure to do so could effect membership status)

Method of Introduction for Acceptance:

Items may be presented to the TATA Board by members or non-members (via live sample, or high resolution (300dpi or better) photo or scan that details the product effectively) for inclusion on an online list that details them for public access. (This list currently resides in a pinned post at the top of the Thompson board at Machinegunboards.com) Items are presented to the TATA Board via e-mail to the TATA President or Vice President, who will convene the board online via e-mail or telephone within 60 days of receipt of a request for inclusion. A list consisting of 3 categories of Thompson reproduction items will be maintained:

A. New reproduction Thompson items that conform to TATA marking standard, to include known manufacturer information.
B. Existing reproduction items that conform to TATA marking standard, to include known manufacturer information.
C. Reproduction Thompson items that do not conform to TATA marking standard, to include known manufacturer information.

At a later time to be determined, once greater experience has been gained with managing a marking standard, TATA will present their standard to the NRA as a potential best practice. The standard may also be introduced to other NRA affiliated collector organizations who might want to adopt a similar standard. (End of standard)

Current TATA officer contacts are as follows for submission of Thompson reproduction items as per above standard:

President: Chuck Schauer- e-mail "gijive" through the e-mail function on this board
Vice President: Ron Brock- e-mail "Ron Brock" through the e-mail function on this board
(Terms for both expire 8/13/16)

Past President: David Albert - e-mail: dalbert@sturmgewehr.com

These materials are protected by copyright and other intellectual property laws.
Copyright 2008, 2009, 2010 © David Albert


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