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Lionhart,

 

If it doesn't matter, why are there those on this board, you being one of them, who have openly admitted they would not buy any replica part with the manufacturers mark?

 

This issue must be somewhat polarizing since PK does put a mark on his repros while GH does not. Maybe this is due to the fact PK actually makes his parts, and GH is merely the distributor/designer(?) of someone else's work. Maybe the machinist should have just gone ahead and made his mark, as it were, and then GH wouldn't have had to make the decision.

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AF,

 

When you get into the area a Bloomington judge, it is already a given that what he is looking at,for the most part,is an assembly of reproduction parts,unless he is judging in a `Survivor class`, and those manufactorers of those parts paid a license fee to,in this case,GM. The Thompson parts reproduction industry does not seem to be so well organized...the marking not so critical...this was the case several years ago in the reproduction parts industry,until GM was blamed for faulty parts they weren`t actually making...lawsuit= licensing fee..something I personally don`t want to see GH have to do...my .02... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif

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wow and if the guy who made gordon's parts initial's are A.H. then can we say..once owned or made by"ADOLPH HITLER???

 

that could bring some extra buck's from nazi{german} collector's....another can of worms to ponder....wanna go fishin??we's got's the worm's..wink!!

 

well i have to go box up two gold plated actuator's...i have the order's flyin in....what every well dressed thompson man,with his wd-40 stained t-shirt...

 

take care,ron

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gordon gold plated ejector's...for sale:rare rare....$279.00

 

marked a.h.and if you order today.we throw in a 1921a thompson!!{squirt gun black plastic} you will be the envy of all the neighborhood!!

 

chain is extra...wink!!

 

take care,ron

 

 

GUY'S....let people do what they want to do.make parts.....

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i guess the only thing i ever made was money..and spent it!!so never got in to the making of repro item's....

 

i am retirin out of the bizz.......so really its does not make a difference to me what any of them do!!

 

over 33 years i sold the best of the best,on whatever i had to offer.and was proud of that record...now let somebody else step forward and break that record....

 

 

oh!! make sure they bring alot of cold cash!!

 

they will need it.wink!!

 

thanks to everybody that cleaned me out.and refund check's in the mail to those that missed something...

 

continue the "quest"

 

and art take care of that 28navy...watch the patina..

 

ron /colt 21a

 

soon:retired 21a

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So, you are implying I am dishonest. And I am not going to buy an ejector, or a tin box, as I don't care.

 

Personally, as far as I am concerned a part that is identical, and indistinguishable, is the same damn part, whether it was made 80 years ago, or yesterday, or who made it, as long as it is identical. One is worth no more or no less than the other to me. Good grief, is someone really going to pay $300 for 80 year old ejector, rather than $90 for a new one, just because it is an *original* part, and they can brag about tehir original part? maybe peolel do, i don't see the allure? I don't understand this. It is not dishonesty, I just fail to see what damn difference it makes if one part is older than another, as long as they are both identical, to me they are the same part.

 

I guess I just don't have the collector mindset to go around and brag about my all original whatever, and get my panties bunched if a duplicate becomes available, as I really don't care.

 

Now if I am going to buy something, I want it to look original, and not honked up with some *identifying feature* or mark. I want an identical something. But then, I have no financial stake in this, and have nothing to lose. But I guess I just don't understand this fascination with originality, pedigree, etc, as I really don't care. I just want product. A TSMG is a TSMG, no matter who made it, a part is a part no matter who made it, some are just better made than others.

 

Doug

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QUOTE
Now if I am going to buy something, I want it to look original, and not honked up with some *identifying feature* or mark. I want an identical something.  AZ Doug

 

Your own post not only contradicts your philosophy in the same paragraph, but it betrays your bizarre ratiocination. You object to a mark on the inside of an ejector, which would never be seen when on the receiver (how this rises to the level of a "honked up" neon sign eludes me), but the thought that there is a tiny mark, completely hidden, is just too much for your purists sensibilities? This is rather an irrational stipulation for a person who claims not to care when a part was made, yet wants his new part to be unmistakable to the original vintage part in every conceivable way. In fact, the words forgery and counterfeit, apparently don't exist in your lexicon.

 

Even George Numrich's N.A.C. Colt TSMG's didn't eradicate the "S's" from the Savage parts to complete a functioning weapon. Had you been in league with him at the time these N.A.C's were assembled, they would no doubt be remembered for their subterfuge, and not just their Frankenstein nature.

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Well, Arthur, i guess I am just jaded from my early 1970's Corvette experiences. Back before Corvettes became popular, and correspondingly expensive, the people that owned them were enthusiasts,and not buying them as an invesment. They worked, made their cars run, and repaired them as best they could as there was no aftermarket source for parts.

 

You either did without parts, put the wrong year parts on your car as you could find them, or had beat up used parts. And everybody understood.

 

Then, about 1976 the climate changed. The rich collector got involved, and they paid to have somebody else hunt up rare parts and work on their cars. these jerks would show up at the meets and parade their all original whatever, or professionally restored, and fastidiously point out that so and so's car had the incorrect grill or rear view mirror. Pompous assholes, they were.

 

They were the type that wanted the plebians to have parts that were marked as reproductions, so they could point out their obviuos superiority to everybody else, as they had original parts on theirs, and the car next to them didn't. And of course, they didn't want their investment diluted, as they did not love the cars, they were in it for the money, and the snobbery of having something better than anybody else that they could brag about at the Country Club.

 

When repos became available, it was a godsend to everybody else, and I bless them for it. And that new chrome, didn't have special markings to to say "hey, I was recently made, the guy that bought this bought it because he couldn't afford to pay 10 times the price for rare unvailalble stuff", and it allowed that guy to make his car look pristine.

 

Read into this what you wish, but I am not trying to *fool* anybody by wanting parts that look like they originally came with the car/gun/whatever. As i said, i see no difference on who made it, or when it was made,a s long as it is indistinguishable, it is the same.

 

Go for it Gordon, make more parts. I am going to buy an ejector from you just because I can!

 

 

 

Doug

 

 

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I have no problem with the new Gordon Herigstad (GH) flat ejector not being marked. It would be my personal preference that all reproduction parts be marked in some manner; however, the fact this functional part isn’t marked doesn’t really bother me. My reasons are twofold; one, this is a functional part and two; it is not a prohibitively expensive part. I am more interested in test or operational reports on this item than I am reproduction issues. My guess is the supply is limited (due to what have to be expensive production costs) and GH ejectors may very well become a collector’s item in its own right someday. To that end, I believe it is a part that was definitely needed and no doubt will sell. I would guess the majority of people purchasing this part would only want to dress up their non-Colt Thompson. Will these GH ejectors find there way to Colt Thompsons? Yes, just like the Savage ejectors that are installed on Colt Thompsons now.

 

I have more problems with the reproduction GH Thompson Spare Parts Kits not being marked. I do feel that these kits will at some point in time be passed off as originals to some innocent buyers. Would a small mark prevent this? Probably not, but it would make it more difficult to be dishonest. After viewing the reproduction GH parts kit and an original parts kit side by side, I will tell all the differences are discernable. Now, with off the shelf reproduction kit boxes available, a prospective buyer has to be a little smarter. If I were in the market for an original parts kit (or ejector), I would definitely purchase a GH reproduction first to learn the differences and to have on hand to do a side-by-side comparison before making a purchase. Informed buyers are not as likely to be cheated as those who just spend money without a full analysis of what they are purchasing.

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To anyone:

 

Do you feel a refinished gun should be stamped as such? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif

 

Would you stamp your gun with "REFINISHED" somewhere on your Thompson if you had it refinshed?

 

After all, refinished guns being sold as original finish guns are one of the biggest swindles going in the Thompson world. Since at some point in time your Thompson will probably be resold (maybe even after you are gone), how will the buyer know without this mark?

 

Just food fot thought.

 

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yes all thompson's that are restored no matter how great they look and m1's and savage and a.o. any one of them should havea sheet with them notarized from the last owner.

that whatever could be replaced has been replaced.with repro parts and with look-a-like parts

not original to the gun.and scribed on the rec.as such...

 

and if any wood has been taken off.its to be burned on the underside 'REPLACEMENT"not original when it left the plant!!

 

and every drum,case,firing pin ejector...magazine..manual!!

 

i can just see it now.and a investigative search, on the last ten owners...with proper documents signed from all of them attesting to this mess......

 

is this brain surgery???

 

or brain fart???

 

i was trying to buy a german 100 assault badge recently,and priced from $650.00 to $1,100.00...and replicas are out there.

 

i went with a replica in minty new cond...because i could not even trust the supposed original....so i know what i am buying..and not getting burned...

 

sometimes we get too nuts in this hobby./collecting buying selling FUN!!

 

yep i can see the 1921a colt replica set now....with restored on the side of the rec.and frame..with all paperwork...and the new customer saying "aw man!! i did not want all this stuff marked up for $48,000.00.and the seller saying "oh wait" i got another in the back room same deal no mark's for $56,700.00 wanna deal???

 

gimme a freakin break people its gun's....tool's..shooter's..

 

we have fun with the stuff.lately its a royal pain to even deal anymore.......it was nice when it was priced better...and not a shark feedin frenzy....

 

and the beat go's on..wink!! take care,ron

 

 

okay phil blast away!!

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  • 4 weeks later...

I think 90.00 flat ejectors are a bargain! Shoot, I bought a Savage flat ejector and a beat up pitted old Colt for 250.00 last year, had these been available I would have just bought TWO NEW ones, and still had some extra coin!!

 

What a perfect addition to a "shooter" colt that you don’t want to ruin perishable parts on!

 

I really don’t think Gordon is tying to pass off his ejectors as new colts, give the man the benefit of the doubt!

 

I really don’t think ANYONE on this board is a thief in any way!

 

Just my .02

 

Dave

 

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QUOTE
I really don’t think Gordon is tying to pass off his ejectors as new colts, give the man the benefit of the doubt!

 

Dave,

The essence of this topic was never that GH was selling reproduction parts as original, rather that the next owner may not be so conscientious about the origin of the part. Surely this much is obvious through out this thread.

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Thanks for reminding me. I had forgotten about these. I will make sure to buy one at the SAR show because I can.

 

I will stick it in a little baggie, maybe with a tin box, put it in the safe, and when I die, my heirs can discover what appears to be an original Colt ejector and put it on E-bay. http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

 

 

Doug

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Arthur you have a good point, I did not look at it from that point of view!

 

Phil you are probably correct also! Clinton did not have sexual relations with that woman! ( i guess if it were a "plastic" cigar it would have been sexual)

 

Any how lets take today off from this post, I should have let it go!

 

Happy Thanks Giving, dont eat too much turkey or all of you will be big like me!

 

Dave

Edited by Dave Janowski
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i will see gordon at the show and buy all his ejector's...and bury them,then dig them up in ten year's.for the new collector's...and sell them at $25.00 each..and hear them moan and groan.

 

i will lose money for the "children"

wink!!

 

i'm going back to "german stuff'

thompson's have gotten to let's say!!

 

well 'er... TENSE

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QUOTE (PhilOhio @ Nov 25 2004, 07:07 PM)
QUOTE (colt21a @ Nov 25 2004, 01:02 PM)
i'm going back to "german stuff'
thompson's have gotten too let's say!!

well 'er... TENSE

More lube, Ron! Just use MORE LUBE!!!

 

Almost every tense situation can be resolved with MORE LUBE! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

nope lube don't do it, honesty,fair price's,and not jackin fellow collector's...........now everybody want's the king's ransom.for whatever it is........................

 

heck sold three m-1d garand's,papered d.c.m.all n.i.b. for $9,000.00 a smokin deal..now people want $4,000.00 plus for just one!!!

 

and that was this year.not some sale's decade's ago...the market has gone nut's on everything...now even the japanese are on the rise...........get it? rise japanese sun!!wink!!

take care,ron

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I saw those liitle boxes and ejectors and cleaning rods today at the SAR show.

 

Very nicely made, quality, authentic looking productions.

 

You purists don't have to worry, however. They look too new, it will take at least 50 years of use for them to acquire the undefinable patina of age to look original, at which time, no one will care whether they were made in 1921 or 2004.

 

That little box was so nice, even me, the cheapskate, was tempted to part with a few c-notes to buy one.

 

Doug

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I don't usually like to get involved in disputes such as these but as long as I am a member of these boards, I'll toss my $.02 out for all to see. Heck, I might even toss out 2 bits!! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/wink.gif I realize that I am now fair game and open to any and all attacks that will probably commence to be hurled my direction, but this needs to be said. Remember, this is my opinion. If you don't like it, hit your "back" key and look at something else.

 

I've seen Gordon's stuff and it really is first rate, top shelf and of the highest quality. I do sincerely believe that Gordon is doing this for the love of the Thompson and as a favor to his friends in the collectors world. he will not get rich or even make much....he may even lose a few bucks. But I think what concerns him is a need for an authentic part to replace a broken one where a supply no longer exists.

 

People whine about the cost of his Serial Numbers book, but if you consider the extremely limited market, then think about the HUNDREDS of hours and the THOUSANDS of dollars spent on doing this research for this book, it doesn't take an Einstein http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/huh.gif to figure out that he ain't making a lot per hour for his time spent on this project!

 

Then the spare parts boxes came along. And then the cleaning equipment, and now the ejectors. Each of these projects cost thousands of dollars to set up (HEY! Any diemakers or machinists out there? PLEASE jump in and inform the board why these parts aren't cost effective to make unless you produce thousands to a huge market!!) Gordon has/is producing an extremely limited supply of all of these parts. Obviously he will be lucky (even at the prices he charges) to break even on these parts. And when his parts are gone, everyone will whine that flat ejectors aren't to be found anywhere. Then someone else will stick their neck out, make a couple hundred parts and the whining will again commence!! http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/blink.gif

 

I personally have thought about (along with a Machinist and Diemaking friend of mine) making reproduction drum parts. How many of us have a nice Colt drum with a mismatched cover, or with a GI key?? Or that Seymour drum with a sloppy West Hurley rotor inside?? Or a Bridgeport drum with a badly dented body???

What stopped me was the fact that it would cost many TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars (literally, folks!) to tool up a set of dies to produce drum parts. Then the stamping dies for identification. Brackets. Rotors. Rivets. Springs. Then the proper finishing, nickeling of the rotors, etc. And for what? So several on the boards could hammer away at my effort to create parts to fill that niche left by a nonexistant supply??

 

NO THANKS! I don't need that!!

 

Some obviously consider these parts "counterfeits". Counterfeit is defined as a product produced to imitate an original in order to deceive others by selling them that product under the guise of it being original.

I perceive these as being "reproduction parts. A "reproduction" is defined as a product produced to imitate an original in order to make that product available where no supply exists.

 

Now the gray area.....to some of us here on the boards, anyway.

 

Counterfeits deceive others by making the unaware believe that all parts of an assembly are original. Markings (if any) are identical to the originals. Identical appearance is important for many trying to replace that broken ejector on their pristine '21 Colt where no spares exist. I personally wouldn't want a spare that had a GH marked on it (even on the back) but that's just me. It would NOT be my intention to deceive anyone if a future sale ever took place, but my idea of original includes "as close to original" as possible. If it doesn't look right........

I wouldn't want a parts box either if it had a small "GH" stamped inconspicuously in a corner. Or a tiny "reproduction". But that's just me.

Personally, because of Gordon's marketing technique, I'll call these reproduction parts. They are not counterfeit, nor is Gordon attempting to fool anyone by saying these are original. He is simply making reproduced parts available in as close to original configuration as possible (for the "purist" in some of us).

 

Now my point. (has to be a catch here, right?)

 

If you feel that the unmarked parts are potentially deceptive and you don't want an unmarked "repro" part on your gun, GO AHEAD AND MARK YOURS ANY WAY YOU SEE FIT . Nobody is stopping you. Put your own initials on it if it makes you happy. It's kinda like Kids and Television, folks!! If you don't want your kids watching a sex scene on TV, TURN IT OFF!!! The power is yours. If you don't like the fact that Gordon doesn't mark his parts, don't buy them, or buy them and mark them yourself.

 

Gordon is not deceiving anyone here folks. He sells these as reproduction parts. If anyone is deceived by these parts in the future, that is not Gordon's doing. Nor is he producing these so that others will be able to deceive the unwary in the future (although that possibility does exist).

 

Gordon is just the manufacturer and merchant. But if you still believe that his production of these parts is setting up some sort of criminal act waiting for a time and place to happen, then I'd bet you also believe that guns cause crime, right??

 

'Nuff said.

 

john

 

BTW, anyone ever think about knurling a smooth actuator knob or a smooth selector?? Wouldn't be too tough to do....... http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/dry.gif

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