Another addition to my Dillinger/Tucson collection

[OCM]

I picked up a 1933 Savage Model 99G Take-Down rifle in 303, good 95% gun. Was another weapon the Dillinger gang had on them when arrested in Tucson ( G is the light weight deluxe model). Mean little gun, no clue where they picked it up. As a take down, it can be taken apart and hauled around in a small case or such.

Took a comparison shot of it to the Winchester 07 they had too.

Maybe defense weapons for a battle like the Little Bo Lodge. Maybe they were bear hunting in Tucson ?

 

 

OCM

 

[jim c 351]

There appears to be at least 2 Savage 99's. Perhaps a third. Can't identify the rifle between the TSMG and 351.

Could be a Savage 99 or a Winchester 95 or a Remington model 8.

Any ideas???

Didn't Fred Burke have a Savage 99 along with the SVM Thompsons??

Jim C

[ghostsoldier]

Fred's arsenal....

(from Mario's website)

 

 

Rob

Edited July 6, 2016 by ghostsoldier

[ron_brock]

There appears to be at least 2 Savage 99's. Perhaps a third. Can't identify the rifle between the TSMG and 351.

Could be a Savage 99 or a Winchester 95 or a Remington model 8.

Any ideas???

Didn't Fred Burke have a Savage 99 along with the SVM Thompsons??

Jim C

Pretty sure it's a Winchester 1895. Looks like the magazine and lever of one.

 

Ron

[OCM]

I've got a pretty good large shot of the photo:

Savage 99G , Thompson, Lebman Winchester 07, ? something with a band on the forend, Thompson, Racine Thompson #3363, Thompson, ? something with a band on the forend. 4 maybe 5 Dunrite BP Vests, 2- 1911s, a Colt 45 revolver.

L-R, Mark Robbins ( fingerprint guy) Chief of Police C.A. Wollard, officer Chet Sherman.

 

AND what the same room looks like today ( thanks to Sheriff Ernie Hudson )

Opps, file is to big to upload . Totally different except the doors etc.

 

 

OCM

[StooperZero]

nice.

 

 

 

curious, what kind of speed is there to the takedown/reassembly?

 

 

 

 

 

300 Savage is readily available too at most places.

[OCM]

Depends on who you are and how good your hands are. Pretty easy, press a button up front, the front grip come off, that in turn is placed back on the barrel with a little insert built in the wood and it turns off- Then repeat.

A new gun, under a minute, easy. Possibly 30 seconds.

Yes, 300 was out too. I had to guess on that, went with the most common, the Savage 303. My only choice.

We think most these guns were probably given to the arresting officers, except the FA ones and ones that were claimed.

Dillinger 1911s were awarded to Herron & Walker by the courts. Know that.

[HANS]

Dillinger 1911s were awarded to Herron & Walker by the courts. Know that.

 

About those. Didn't they find two Super .38 pistols on Dillinger and Pierpont respectively? Dillinger's was nickeled and pearl-handled. Both were signed over to detectives, Sherman and Eyman respectively. So who carried the .45s? Clark and Makley? Do you have the serial numbers of the .45 pistols and revolver, by any chance? Why is the second Winchester Model 07 (Lebman) carbine not in that picture?

 

Cheers

 

HANS

Edited July 7, 2016 by HANS

[OCM]

Hans-Dillinger had two guns on him, a Colt Super 38 in factory nickel & pearls, that was recently bought from Wolf & Klar in Fort Worth and a Colt 45 Automatic. ( research the forum here, I've posted pictures and ser # a couple times of this 38 super) The Colt 45 was awarded to Milo Walker, the Colt Super 38 to James Herron by the courts.

Clark was carrying a Colt 45 Automatic when arrested, Makley I don't know, but did have a Navy Thompson with him, probably in the car, the Racine gun. Pierpont had a Super 38 on him and actually the revolver used to kill Sarber, in an ankle holster- This evidence sent him to old Sparkey.

 

These weapons were just show pieces at the arrangement, just a sample for the public & press.

When you write your story on this send a copy-

 

Rob- Looks like a Savage 99, must of been a popular gun with the gangsters, thanks for posting the photos. I think the take down feature appealed to them for storage, just a thought on my part.

 

Ron/Jim C- I think you guys are talking about two different photos posted here. ?

 

OCM

[StooperZero]

i saw one locally today 303 savage for $500.. but the takedown button is missing and it has a tasco scope on it.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2016 by StooperZero

[OCM]

Not real expensive guns today, as is the Winchester 07s. Nice ones are a bit more.

 

Would of been interesting what Lebman could of done to the Savage 99 take down. Not much with a lever action I guess. Still the internal rotating magazine , with the side counter, is pretty special.

 

Nice for my collection, without the price tag of a 21 AC.

[jim c 351]

Sandy,

Maybe Lebman could have modified the 99 with one of those do-dads like the TV "Rifleman" had. So every time the lever was closed it fired.

Of course with only 4 rounds----------

Jim C

[OCM]

It's a great gun, the Savage, but hard to understand why these were in outlaw/gangster inventory, when you got full auto & semi-auto available, in your trade .

Could be like the Peru PD robbery, just take everything.

 

Still, for me, is the quality of weaponry and my area of collecting, that is great. No plastic etc. Like my classic cars.

 

Research supersedes all of it for me.

[StooperZero]

with it's 2000+ FPS, and being handy , it should have made short work of anyone in their way.

[HANS]

Hans-Dillinger had two guns on him, a Colt Super 38 in factory nickel & pearls, that was recently bought from Wolf & Klar in Fort Worth and a Colt 45 Automatic. ( research the forum here, I've posted pictures and ser # a couple times of this 38 super) The Colt 45 was awarded to Milo Walker, the Colt Super 38 to James Herron by the courts.

Clark was carrying a Colt 45 Automatic when arrested, Makley I don't know, but did have a Navy Thompson with him, probably in the car, the Racine gun. Pierpont had a Super 38 on him and actually the revolver used to kill Sarber, in an ankle holster- This evidence sent him to old Sparkey.

 

These weapons were just show pieces at the arrangement, just a sample for the public & press.

When you write your story on this send a copy-

 

I've got the serials of the two Super .38s, but I'm missing the ones of the three .45s (pistols and revolver). I've tried the Tucson PD for serial numbers, but they claim they don't have any of this information in their Dillinger files and referred me to the Arizona State Archives, which came up with nothing and referred me to TPD ...

 

I'm more than happy to show you my draft (which concerns all the gangsters and outlaws of the time, not just Dillinger), I'm a big believer in peer review. You're already in my footnotes regarding the Bonnie & Clyde ambush

 

Cheers

 

HANS

[OCM]

You have a lot of questions, are you planning a book or just more articles like on Hamer ? I've been interviewed many times, so nothing to new.

Good to see some interest in the historical subject. You get 1 million different views on the subject, mainly with Bonnie & Clyde, whereas the history about them has drifted all over the place. Crazy. Old stories twisted everywhere. I usually stay more in the Dillinger research camp.

 

Recently I've been doing stuff with & about the B-29 in WWII, based on my father's extensive files, as a Commander of on in the war in the Pacific.

 

I don't have my many resources to look stuff up anymore. I don't think Tucson PD will or can be of much help, my friends have completely combed everything involved. The PD files were lifted many years ago. I've been to the University to research, AHS and others, as you, found nothing.

These above answers are from retired TPD officers and from old personal interviews ( not me) with a lot of the arresting officers, Walker, Eyman, Hattie Strauss and a few others, so it's quite correct.

I even visited the Chemistry Department at the University looking for the jar of old Dillinger's chewing gum they claimed to have. There's how to make yourself look crazy.

 

Good luck with your book.

 

Side note: A very sad situation in Dallas last night, very sad. Wish this stuff would stop, crazy world.

 

OCM

[HANS]

You have a lot of questions, are you planning a book or just more articles like on Hamer ? I've been interviewed many times, so nothing to new.

Good to see some interest in the historical subject. You get 1 million different views on the subject, mainly with Bonnie & Clyde, whereas the history about them has drifted all over the place. Crazy. Old stories twisted everywhere. I usually stay more in the Dillinger research camp.

 

Recently I've been doing stuff with & about the B-29 in WWII, based on my father's extensive files, as a Commander of on in the war in the Pacific.

 

I don't have my many resources to look stuff up anymore. I don't think Tucson PD will or can be of much help, my friends have completely combed everything involved. The PD files were lifted many years ago. I've been to the University to research, AHS and others, as you, found nothing.

These above answers are from retired TPD officers and from old personal interviews ( not me) with a lot of the arresting officers, Walker, Eyman, Hattie Strauss and a few others, so it's quite correct.

I even visited the Chemistry Department at the University looking for the jar of old Dillinger's chewing gum they claimed to have. There's how to make yourself look crazy.

 

Good luck with your book.

 

Thanks! First I was just curious, then I started writing an article, now I've got so much stuff it really should be a book I'm trying to research the armaments of all the players in the 1920s and 1930s, not just the big names but also the lesser known ones. I'm really only interested in the hardware, but of course that doesn't exist in a vacuum. Where did the guns come from? Who used them how and when and why? Where did they go? What did the opposition (ie, the forces of law and order) use? I'm trying to get to the bottom of the twisted stories (in as far as they matter to me) by starting with contemporary sources (Bureau files, photos, newspaper articles) rather than the many retellings. Many of the questions that arise from this we've already discussed here, eg, the Lebman guns, Hamer's Monitor (nay or yay), etc.

 

Cheers

 

HANS

 

Re: Dillinger's gum. Haha, excellent.

[OCM]

Actually a true story about the gum, possibly an urban legend- JD would eat breakfast, lunch or dinner at this same little café everyday in Tucson, on his brief stay. The owner noticed he would stick his ( Black Jack) chewing gum under the same table they ( Billie) sat at, facing the front door. A common practice and probably still is today ?

When they got arrested the owner realized it was John Dillinger that was at his café eating, sticking his gum under the table prior to eating-

So, he took ALL the chewing gum that was stuck under the Dillinger table and displayed it in a jar, in the café.

Somehow it got to the University of Arizona in Tucson's chemistry dept. and was on display. They have a lot of stuff on display in the halls but I couldn't find any jars of used Dillinger gum. Went there cause the University isn't far from the 2nd Ave arresting house anyway.

My wife " timed-out" on the gum hunt and we left. I did ask some professional looking professor type lady if she knew, funny look and " No "

Bet there was a good story about me in the coffee room. " Asked for What ?"

[OCM]

Don't know how to add a quote-

 

Ron & Jim- blew up the Tucson photo, or you can, pretty sure the third gun from the left is a Winchester 1895, I think a take down model too. Gun on far right , I don't think either a Winchester or Savage, not a Savage for sure . Early Browning ? as it has that Savage body, but not a savage buttstock. Lever action something.

I think I'm right except for the mystery gun & I'm not good at the rifle IDs unless obvious.

Anyone with a good gun eye, I'd like to know, just cause...

Thanks

 

 

OCM

Edited July 12, 2016 by OCM

[jim c 351]

A straight grip Savage. http://www.rockislandauction.com/photos/1022/p_standard/SUY48A-G-F1-L.jpg

Edited July 8, 2016 by jim c 351

[OCM]

There we go, the experts come thru again, Jim being one of them. A Savage. Need to sign you up, Pal, with the Gun Hunters. Good eye on this stuff-

 

Beer-thirty in my world. I'll list this tomorrow, I think this is the first time these have been positively IDed, not that that will cure cancer or anything, but..

 

Wait till Helmer sees this, probably fall asleep.

 

Thanks Mr. C, you're a good man even tho I'm better looking .

 

OCM

[OCM]

BTW, I'm looking for an original grip cap for my 1933 Savage 99. I see reproductions that are about 26 bucks or ones with medallions about 40 bucks online at the Vintage Grip Store - I have a repro on it now, but I think the optional medallion is missing ?

Anyone stumble across one at a gun show, let me know. With a zillion Savage 99s produced you'd think an original from a parts gun could be got.

 

John would of wanted it that way -

 

Thanks !

 

OCM

[StooperZero]

let me look through my endless piles of crap , i might have an end cap.

[OCM]

Thanks Hacksaw Jim...

 

This is what's on the gun now ( L) . I think it had the Indians head on it at one time, this is the repro that came on the gun, I knew that when I bought it, just like to take it back to correct.

Measures 1 5/8 X 1 3/16 or close to that.

 

NOTE: Found a new repro from original Savage mold for $12.00 . Still would like an original with the Indian head insert, but this will do.......

See below.

Edited July 10, 2016 by OCM

[StooperZero]

i looked,, found the empty cap area it would have been on . Must have put it on a nicer stock when i sold the gun.

 

 

 

 

 

Generally .. that savage cap is a universal fit for all their stuff when it was made of wood.