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Selector Lock


billie32
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i've heard a bunch about a safety lock thing on these guns, and have seen the pictures...but i haven't quite been able to find any other information on them. a friend of mine who recently got back from iraq was issued a revamped m14 as his sniper rifle, which was fitted with one of these, and he was saying something about a kay the unlocked it that his CO had. does anybody have any idea? i tried finding more information in the books i have but got nowhere. Edited by billie32
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Yes it is almost sure that he was speaking of the selector lock. The M14 is almost useless as a full auto, but if necessary he can just remove the selector lock and use the selector shaft with just a cotter pin and a coil spring. A problem with the rifle is that the connecting bar scrapes the finish off the side of the operating rod, so it is good to leave the bar off a semi M14.

Does anyone recall the movie Full Metal Jacket, in which the troops had their M14s locked to the outside of their bunk frames by padlocks through the trigger safeties?

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A problem with the rifle is that the connecting bar scrapes the finish off the side of the operating rod, so it is good to leave the bar off a semi M14.

 

froster,

I have over 3 decades of experience with US M14 rifles and M1As. Your proposed modification of a US M14 rifle is nothing less than Dangerous. The connector assembly is designed to keeps the op rod tab in its track. Without the connector installed, the op rod & bolt are free to uncouple on recoil. The modification you propose falls under the heading of DESTRUCTIVE TESTING. So please do us all a favor and edit your post before someone gets injured. Best to bury this one right here. If someone is injured using your modification, you may get a chance to do DESTRUCTIVE TESTING on your liability insurance limits.

The pic below shows a U.S. M14 rifle with the Auto selector installed. You can also see the connector assembly and op rod track disconnect slot it fills.

And as for the popular myth that M14 is not effective on full auto, opinions vary. The fact is the modern day U.S. M14 rifle is capable of lethal full auto fire when used by someone properly trained in its use. And when fitted with the accessories SEI developed for the U.S. military, the M14's full-auto effectiveness approaches that of the U.S. M1918A2 BAR in a package that weighs about half as much. This was one of the original goals of the M14 rifle.

 

Carey

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72/leid/IMG_0004.jpg

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A problem with the rifle is that the connecting bar scrapes the finish off the side of the operating rod, so it is good to leave the bar off a semi M14.

The disconnector serves to fill the op rod dismounting slot, and is always needed to retain the op rod on any M-14, regardless of fire mode. This is not the case with M1-As and other recent clones. Yes, the disconnector drags on some M-14 op rods, but not all, and will score off the finish. Re-indexing the barrel slightly can cure this minor problem, if it bothers you. Remember that originally, an M-14 barrel was considered properly factory indexed if the front sight did not overhang the front sight base on either side. There were no witness marks.

Edited by TSMGguy
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So are you saying there's a danger on the M14 because the cutout in the rail for the bar stud is longer and gives the op rod more chance to come out?

If it were up to me the M14 family would get some significant upgrades.

I wonder if the army has had much luck getting more M14s for operations. Does anyone know what became of the T48s? I suppose it's too much to hope that they were kept, or maybe they were until Clinton sent out his infamous order.

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QUOTE (froster @ Oct 28 2006, 06:27 PM)
So are you saying there's a danger on the M14 because the cutout in the rail for the bar stud is longer and gives the op rod more chance to come out?
   If it were up to me the M14 family would get some significant upgrades.

froster,

It is very apparent that you have not yet tested "significant upgrade #1" of firing the M14 rifle with the connector assembly removed. Please let us know what went thru your mind, pardon the pun, during your test of the "significantly upgraded" Froster rifle:

 

a. The op rod handle

b. The rear of the receiver

c. The bolt

d. All of the above

e. The connector assembly (Hint: You removed this as part of "significant upgrade #1").

 

Also, you need a catchy name for your invention. How about "The Lobotomizer"? http://www.machinegunbooks.com/forums/invboard1_1_2/upload/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

 

 

Best of luck,

Carey

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Actually, a lot of Chinese made M14s have been sold and used with the long slot for the op rod with safety and success. They had the connector bars removed and I am sure that a lot of original M 14s have been used the same way..

What I would like for an M14 would be an FN FAL type gas block and plug that could be used without tools. A bolt with non interlocked parts in it that could each be removed with a drift would be nice. So would a spring for the firing pin. Todays makers should get on it.

While we are on the subject, do you remember that the roller for the bolt lug was designed during WW2 for the M1?

It wasn't adopted for service but I wonder if anyone has added it to a privately owned specimen.

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I forgot to mention last time, but a friend bought an H&R M14 for $400 back in 1990 and we found two things about it.

One was that about all the finish was worn off so that it needed a full reparkerizing job. The other was that I noticed that the connector bar didn't seem to move right and on looking more closely I found the little plunger in it was installed backwards. We fixed that quickly. What I wonder is if the gas block can be done with regular parkerizing, or if the stainless steel needs special treatment.

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  • 3 years later...
So anywya, I know this thread is several years old at this point, but I was just wondering when the selector lock was introduced. Still haven't found much information about them in the books. Also, from what I heard, there iis a way to change the setting on them with a special tool to allow FA fire without having to remove the lock. Is this true? Or do you have to remove the lock and put a standard selector back on the gun?
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So anywya, I know this thread is several years old at this point, but I was just wondering when the selector lock was introduced. Still haven't found much information about them in the books. Also, from what I heard, there iis a way to change the setting on them with a special tool to allow FA fire without having to remove the lock. Is this true? Or do you have to remove the lock and put a standard selector back on the gun?

 

billie,

When I was in Korea in 1963 I was issued a M14 with the semi auto lock installed. The only M14s that had the selector switch were the rifles issued to the designated automatic riflemen in the infantry squad. I seem to remember that there were 2 AR men in each squad.

Needless to say , this was a big disappointment to yours truly. I wanted a machine gun and was determined to have one.

I found that by disassembling the selector lock device, with the help of a small nail, and removing (with a file) an off center boss, I could rotate the part 180 degrees and reassemble. Then I had a rifle that would fire full auto only.

It was terrible for accuracy , but a blast to shoot.

One fine day the tankers were going to a nearby range to fire the M3 SMG and the 1911 pistol. I ask the Lt. if I could go and bring my majic M14. Permission was granted.

The M3 and 1911 are fine firearms and the tankers were having fun blasting away. I went off to the far left side of the range , so as not to interfear with the official training , and cut loose with a 10 rd burst. Before I finished the second mag I noticed the Lt. and 3 sergeants forming a line behind me. The Lt. politely asked for permission to shoot my rifle. Then the Sgts. wanted a turn. The Lt. ended up sending his driver back to supply for more ammo.

It was all great fun.

I have a M1A and like it , but I would not spend my money on a M14. It shoots fast, makes a lot of noise, recoils a lot and is very difficult to hold on target. Also , you can't use the in steel plates.

Thanks for asking the question.

Jim C

PS--As far as I know the semi locks were issued from the very beginning, when they first issued the rifles.

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So anywya, I know this thread is several years old at this point, but I was just wondering when the selector lock was introduced. Still haven't found much information about them in the books. Also, from what I heard, there iis a way to change the setting on them with a special tool to allow FA fire without having to remove the lock. Is this true? Or do you have to remove the lock and put a standard selector back on the gun?

 

 

Billie32, the selector "lock" is retained by a roll pin. When the "lock" is installed, the selector spring which is used with the selector is not used.

 

No special tools needed other than a roll pin punch and hammer. The ingenuity of the designers is that the selector and the selector block may only be assembled correctly, it is impossible to put put two parts incorrectly.

 

Ross

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So anywya, I know this thread is several years old at this point, but I was just wondering when the selector lock was introduced. Still haven't found much information about them in the books. Also, from what I heard, there iis a way to change the setting on them with a special tool to allow FA fire without having to remove the lock. Is this true? Or do you have to remove the lock and put a standard selector back on the gun?

 

Billie32, picture of all of the parts discussed are in this Sturm ad....only thing missing is the roll pin

 

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/parts.cgi?read=264414

 

Ross

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
I have a M1A and like it , but I would not spend my money on a M14. It shoots fast, makes a lot of noise, recoils a lot and is very difficult to hold on target. Also , you can't use the in steel plates.

If the M14E2 with the SAW options is set up and deployed correctly the recoil and accuracy are very well controlled .Adjusting the sling tension so down force is applied to the Bipod by use of the fore grip along with the muzzle stabilizer I am able to easily hold a 30 round magazine within the center of a 15 inch tire at 50 meters .

 

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k68/phagar/M14-6.jpg

 

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I have a M1A and like it , but I would not spend my money on a M14. It shoots fast, makes a lot of noise, recoils a lot and is very difficult to hold on target. Also , you can't use the in steel plates.

If the M14E2 with the SAW options is set up and deployed correctly the recoil and accuracy are very well controlled .Adjusting the sling tension so down force is applied to the Bipod by use of the fore grip along with the muzzle stabilizer I am able to easily hold a 30 round magazine within the center of a 15 inch tire at 50 meters .

 

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k68/phagar/M14-6.jpg

 

hagar,

I don't doubt you for a minute. And sometimes its possible to go to prone and make use of the bipod. It works especially well on the range.

In combat things like brush, water, hillside ect. will not permit using the bipod. How well can you hold the burst from standing ?

If you watch actual combat films on the history channel you will notice that almost no BAR man has a bipod on his rifle. Now you know why.

Somewhere I have a manual on the M14E2 and if I remember correctly, it encouraged using rapid semi-auto fire in place of full auto fire. Of course I could be wrong.

Jim C

PS When I was issued the M14 there was no E2 stocks , only the bipod.

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I have a M1A and like it , but I would not spend my money on a M14. It shoots fast, makes a lot of noise, recoils a lot and is very difficult to hold on target. Also , you can't use the in steel plates.

If the M14E2 with the SAW options is set up and deployed correctly the recoil and accuracy are very well controlled .Adjusting the sling tension so down force is applied to the Bipod by use of the fore grip along with the muzzle stabilizer I am able to easily hold a 30 round magazine within the center of a 15 inch tire at 50 meters .

 

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k68/phagar/M14-6.jpg

 

hagar,

I don't doubt you for a minute. And sometimes its possible to go to prone and make use of the bipod. It works especially well on the range.

In combat things like brush, water, hillside ect. will not permit using the bipod. How well can you hold the burst from standing ?

If you watch actual combat films on the history channel you will notice that almost no BAR man has a bipod on his rifle. Now you know why.

Somewhere I have a manual on the M14E2 and if I remember correctly, it encouraged using rapid semi-auto fire in place of full auto fire. Of course I could be wrong.

Jim C

PS When I was issued the M14 there was no E2 stocks , only the bipod.

I will agree with you about the rifle being difficult to manage if the options are not used .I was thinking more of its ability to provide accurate and controllable fire from a fixed position .In my case such as a range .With practice I have found that I can do fairly well from a standing position if using very short bursts (3-4) Rds .

I know this can't be done with many M14's but I am very lucky to have an excellent trigger group .It is even possible to make single shot when in the F/A position .

That is another reason I would not part with mine .

 

Respectfully,

 

Pat Hagar

 

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I have a M1A and like it , but I would not spend my money on a M14. It shoots fast, makes a lot of noise, recoils a lot and is very difficult to hold on target. Also , you can't use the in steel plates.

If the M14E2 with the SAW options is set up and deployed correctly the recoil and accuracy are very well controlled .Adjusting the sling tension so down force is applied to the Bipod by use of the fore grip along with the muzzle stabilizer I am able to easily hold a 30 round magazine within the center of a 15 inch tire at 50 meters .

 

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k68/phagar/M14-6.jpg

 

hagar,

I don't doubt you for a minute. And sometimes its possible to go to prone and make use of the bipod. It works especially well on the range.

In combat things like brush, water, hillside ect. will not permit using the bipod. How well can you hold the burst from standing ?

If you watch actual combat films on the history channel you will notice that almost no BAR man has a bipod on his rifle. Now you know why.

Somewhere I have a manual on the M14E2 and if I remember correctly, it encouraged using rapid semi-auto fire in place of full auto fire. Of course I could be wrong.

Jim C

PS When I was issued the M14 there was no E2 stocks , only the bipod.

I will agree with you about the rifle being difficult to manage if the options are not used .I was thinking more of its ability to provide accurate and controllable fire from a fixed position .In my case such as a range .With practice I have found that I can do fairly well from a standing position if using very short bursts (3-4) Rds .

I know this can't be done with many M14's but I am very lucky to have an excellent trigger group .It is even possible to make single shot when in the F/A position .

That is another reason I would not part with mine .

 

Respectfully,

 

Pat Hagar

Glad to see some M14 posts about full auto. Jim C, I tried your trick of taking off the lock and flipping the selector shaft. Duh! Cool! When I got my TRW reweld in 1994, I tried it first with rifle stock and then in E2 configuration and found a world of difference. I put a Springfield/BM59 paratrooper stock on it, an 18" M1A1 bush barrel with an early Fabian brothers combo muzzle brake/flash suppressor canted about 45 degrees for off-hand shooting, and a vertical fold down grip from an E2 stock. Leaning in to it and locked up tight, I can get 4 to 5 round bursts in a 12" target at 100 yards. I also took a Smith brake and heated up the silver solder to adjust the brake body to a guesstimated 45 degree angle (I used the muzzle brake off the BM 59 E model as a visual reference for both cases) and get the same results.

Doug B

 

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Clever! Is it transferable?

Sorry to say no .I have done armory work for several law enforcement agencies over the years and this was a request to develop a sear that could be used in the M1A type rifle .It took me several months to work it up and by the time I finished it they had changed administrations and dropped the idea so to my knowledge it is the only one ever produced .

 

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  • 1 year later...
I have a M1A and like it , but I would not spend my money on a M14. It shoots fast, makes a lot of noise, recoils a lot and is very difficult to hold on target. Also , you can't use the in steel plates.

If the M14E2 with the SAW options is set up and deployed correctly the recoil and accuracy are very well controlled .Adjusting the sling tension so down force is applied to the Bipod by use of the fore grip along with the muzzle stabilizer I am able to easily hold a 30 round magazine within the center of a 15 inch tire at 50 meters .

 

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k68/phagar/M14-6.jpg

 

My M14 is controllable on FA. I know there is some video of me somewhere but this guy shows that some skill is required to keep the M14 on target. The E2 mods really make a difference.

 

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I have a M1A and like it , but I would not spend my money on a M14. It shoots fast, makes a lot of noise, recoils a lot and is very difficult to hold on target. Also , you can't use the in steel plates.

If the M14E2 with the SAW options is set up and deployed correctly the recoil and accuracy are very well controlled .Adjusting the sling tension so down force is applied to the Bipod by use of the fore grip along with the muzzle stabilizer I am able to easily hold a 30 round magazine within the center of a 15 inch tire at 50 meters .

 

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k68/phagar/M14-6.jpg

 

My M14 is controllable on FA. I know there is some video of me somewhere but this guy shows that some skill is required to keep the M14 on target. The E2 mods really make a difference.

 

 

Because of a good trigger system I can get off single shot or two round bursts fairly consistently .

 

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  • 1 month later...

Buy a Smith (SEI) muzzle brake, it will take a lot of the work out of it. Your picture doesn't show an E2 sling attached. If you did not fire it with the sling attached to the grip and bipod and adjusted for you to apply intense downward pressure, I can see why you decided it was uncontrollable.

Doug

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Your picture doesn't show an E2 sling attached. If you did not fire it with the sling attached to the grip and bipod and adjusted for you to apply intense downward pressure, I can see why you decided it was uncontrollable. Doug

 

I do not have an E2 sling as of yet, but I will look for one at the SAR show. For some reason I like having the selector lock installed with the synthetic stock, I think it looks cool.

Edited by azdskin
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