1921/1928 on Gunbroker

[ALLUTAH]

Nice looking 1921/1928 Navy for sale on gunbroker #626022904 maybe a little pricey, beautiful looking gun though.

[Speeddemon02]

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/626022904

[bob241]

This one looks nicer.

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/625810849

[wwiifirearms]

Both look pretty nice to me.

[buzz]

I don't know what it is, but Colts don't seem all that special to me.

 

I just don't value their Colt-ness the way the rest of Thompson collectors seem to.

 

To me it's a peacetime gun with a higher grade fit and finish than the WWII guns. Is that worth 2x as much?

 

Shrug.

 

I wonder how many other Thompson fans feel the way I do.

[MrBill]

Chicago,Al Capone, John Dillinger ,Irish Swords, Idiot J Edgar Hoover....Machine Gun Kelly, St. Valentines Massacre..........Yeh and that horrible blue job.................. Just makes say West Hurley

[JJX]

I agree it is pricey, but is $40k about average for a nice '21 lately?

This one sold a few weeks ago.

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/614599003

[ron_brock]

I don't know what it is, but Colts don't seem all that special to me.

 

I just don't value their Colt-ness the way the rest of Thompson collectors seem to.

 

To me it's a peacetime gun with a higher grade fit and finish than the WWII guns. Is that worth 2x as much?

 

Shrug.

 

I wonder how many other Thompson fans feel the way I do.

In addition to the features you mention, there was also a heck of a lot less made (comparing only to WWII guns), only 15k. Figure what are transferable and yes there is a much smaller market. I fondled a beautiful Colt this past weekend and have to say they are on par with a fine pre-second war German or Swiss made arm. Fit and finish are excellent.

 

I'm sure this post will just turn into another discourse on how over engineered, over complex, overpriced...that the design was, however for it's time it was similar to other arms produced in terms of quality and the market speaks pretty clearly as they have always held a premium over later Thompsons. Keep in mind this was developed in the teens. Maybe this will change as more folks learn about the M1/M1A1 style or more movies are made about WWII. I agree that the M1/M1A1 style are great arms and I like them for the same reasons I like M1 Carbines and Garands. All of them are guns that run well all the time and are very dependable - perfect war arms.

 

I guess a similar analogy can be made of 1911 style guns. What will bring more a MIB Colt Commercial in 38 super or a MIB Colt 1911A1? Others on this board know better than me, but high polish, high finish and bluing sells.

 

Ron

[wwiifirearms]

Let's play a little "Price is Right", on the one that has some bids. Closest without going over.

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/625810849

 

I will start with a prediction of $37,500.

Anyone else won't to take a guess?

Winner gets bragging rights

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

I don't know what it is, but Colts don't seem all that special to me.

 

I just don't value their Colt-ness the way the rest of Thompson collectors seem to.

 

To me it's a peacetime gun with a higher grade fit and finish than the WWII guns. Is that worth 2x as much?

 

Shrug.

 

I wonder how many other Thompson fans feel the way I do.

 

Peacetime? The first time any Thompson Submachinegun was used in combat was in June 16,1921 (two months after initial production) when the IRA fired two Colt MODEL 1921A on a troop train near Drumcondra, Dublin. WWII for America was 20 years down the road.

 

Nobody is asking you to value the Colt TSMG. The marketplace determines value. That you value the design minus the Blish Lock is why you post on the Thompson Submachine Gun Message Board.

[ppgcowboy]

I think you are close. A few extra perifials would sell it around 39k. A New York drum would seal the deal at around 40 on the first or second try. It will not sell this time around but patience will flirt with 40.

[TD.]

NO 13350 has an inviting opening bid but a bidder needs to understand the complete procurement process before seriously bidding. Who has possession, on what form will it transfer, who to pay, where will it be stored during the transfer process and what are all the other possible charges are some of the details that need further study. The pictures are terrible. I suggest asking for better pictures and inspect this one in person.

 

NO 9039 has a lot of low resolution pictures. I suggest asking for some high resolution pictures.

 

NO 7835 took several auctions to obtain the asking price. Again, terrible pictures. Would you spend 40K based on those pictures?

[buzz]

Arthur,

 

You seem to think that if a gun is used in any sort of warfare anywhere, or finds its way in any quantity into any military inventory, that makes it a “wartime” gun.

 

I think that idea is absurd.

 

I think that guns made during wartime for use in the war are “war production”. I think that guns made during peacetime are peacetime guns. I’m silly that way.

 

I don’t think we’re ever going to agree.

 

 

A lot of people in general seem to think that a solid argument can be based on little nuances of semantics. I think that approach is a flat waste of time, something to be avoided.

 

 

I agree that nobody is asking me to value Colts in the same way that other people do. Nor is anyone asking me to parrot their opinions back to them.

 

It's irritating when other people disagree. Or is it interesting? i forget which.

[Paladin601]

I don't know what it is, but Colts don't seem all that special to me.

 

I just don't value their Colt-ness the way the rest of Thompson collectors seem to.

 

To me it's a peacetime gun with a higher grade fit and finish than the WWII guns. Is that worth 2x as much?

 

Shrug.

 

I wonder how many other Thompson fans feel the way I do.

agreed, the WW2 guns have that special saved the world look, that I like, but that is just me

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

I think that guns made during wartime for use in the war are “war production”. I think that guns made during peacetime are peacetime guns. I’m silly that way.

 

Your interpretation of those weapons made during hostilities as having special dispensation as opposed to weapons available before hostilities that were then pressed into service during hostilities is not in doubt.

 

But if we apply your "wartime/peacetime" delineation at time of weapon production, we see that the Colt MODEL 1921 fits your own rubric.

 

Soviet–Finnish conflict 1921–1922

The Turkish-Greek conflict 1919-1923

Irish War of Independence 1920-1921

Ukrainian War of Independence 1914-1921

Second Moroccan War 1920-1926

Second Rand Revolt 1921-1922

 

BTW: Do the TSMGs made during WWII that never left the continental U.S. qualify as "war production"?

[buzz]

Arthur,

 

You're not going to get anyone to think of Colts as "war production" just because there was a war going on in Morocco when the Colts were made.

 

Why would you want to? It's pointless.

 

The Colts are VERY highly valued collector items. There's no need to try to bolster their street cred with collectors by making them be all things to all people.

 

 

When gun collectors say something like "This S&W revolver is war production", they mean that the gun was made by S&W under a wartime military contract.

 

They don't mean that there was a border skirmish going on in Zimbabwe when the gun was made.

 

You know this already, I know it, the other people reading this know it.

 

So the point of this exchange is what?

[michaelkih]

That Thompson does look nice. I'll jump in on guessing the price and say $38,000.

 

In regards to the argument above, I didn't need anyone to convince me that Colt Thompsons are the pinnacle. Even after buying nearly 20 transferable machine guns my holy grail gun was always a Colt 21A. I almost gave in an bought a much cheaper WWII Thompson on several occasions. Especially when pre samples pop up for sale for $10,000. I held out though, and now I have an early 21A headed my way. Couldn't be happier to have waited and chosen a Colt for a hundred different reasons. Everyone's got their own opinions though, and to each their own!

[dalbert]

I don't know what it is, but Colts don't seem all that special to me.

 

I just don't value their Colt-ness the way the rest of Thompson collectors seem to.

 

To me it's a peacetime gun with a higher grade fit and finish than the WWII guns. Is that worth 2x as much?

 

Shrug.

 

I wonder how many other Thompson fans feel the way I do.

 

I believe you're the first...

 

David

[Motorcar]

I believe you're the first...

David

 

 

BAWAHAHAHA!

[ppgcowboy]

I am glad there are a lot of gun enthusiast that value a Colt Thompson, that makes my Colt an investment. I do want an M1 or M1a1in the near future as well as a 28a1. I want the whole trifecta. You are unique just like everyone else.

[huggytree]

More than 3 versions to collect

Colt 1921

S1928

1928 a1

M1a

M1

 

Each is different. My s1928 has a different finish quality vs a 1928a1. Just like a colt has its own finish quality

 

Colts aren't worth $40k + for me. But to some they are worth $60k for some really nice examples.

 

I paid $5k more for a m16 for a different roll mark. So to each his own. Glad to see lots of choices for sale right now. Seems like more colts for sale lately than ww2 guns

[MrBill]

The value for Colt Thompsons in my opinion is very much like real estate in a resort area. Locals (old timers on the board) are in shock and amazement for what the asking and selling price for the listings is. Other locals got into their real estate not too long ago but are riding the inflation wave and enjoying it. Personal wealth for certain people is robust and a 40K or 50K purchase is possible. And there always be the chicken little's who failed to pay the outrageous 5K twenty years ago and can only mourn the new buyers getting in the market. How high can this Thompson market go? Curtiss would know.

[Arthur Fliegenheimer]

 

I don't know what it is, but Colts don't seem all that special to me.

 

I just don't value their Colt-ness the way the rest of Thompson collectors seem to.

 

To me it's a peacetime gun with a higher grade fit and finish than the WWII guns. Is that worth 2x as much?

 

Shrug.

 

I wonder how many other Thompson fans feel the way I do.

 

I believe you're the first...

 

David

[buzz]

 

I don't know what it is, but Colts don't seem all that special to me.

 

I just don't value their Colt-ness the way the rest of Thompson collectors seem to.

 

To me it's a peacetime gun with a higher grade fit and finish than the WWII guns. Is that worth 2x as much?

 

Shrug.

 

I wonder how many other Thompson fans feel the way I do.

 

I believe you're the first...

 

David

 

 

Suits me.

 

When everyone's thinking alike, then nobody is thinking.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments

[darrylta]

Buzz,

You may feel like you do, because you've elected not to own a Colt TSMG.

Try it, you'll like it.

Darryl