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Pair of 28 Commercial Savages


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#41 firearm

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 01:04 PM

So much that it is really overwhelming.  I starting thinking about dusting off a lot of this stuff about 6 or 8 months ago.  I am starting to get it in gear.  The political climate in the country is going to crap.  Just thinking that some politician could reduce your collection to scrap iron with the stroke of a pen is bothersome to say the least.  I am just going to cherry pick what I want to keep.  Give my kids a few things and the rest is going out the door.       

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#42 RChapman

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 01:07 PM

So much that it is really overwhelming.  I starting thinking about dusting off a lot of this stuff about 6 or 8 months ago.  I am starting to get it in gear.  The political climate in the country is going to crap.  Just thinking that some politician could reduce your collection to scrap iron with the stroke of a pen is bothersome to say the least.  I am just going to cherry pick what I want to keep.  Give my kids a few things and the rest is going out the door.       

 

 

shocking photo  :o


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#43 Sandman1957

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 02:02 PM

Photo of the year!!


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#44 huggytree

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 02:16 PM

so ive tried to add up your thompson collection from both the pic just shown and also the pic you had with your screen name...i count approx 42 in each

 

so you own 42-84+ thompsons......multimillionaire.....i hope you take nice vacations and drive a nice car?

 

the amazing thing would be to add up what you paid and what they are now worth..with all the accessories....your return on investment ill bet is insane by any standard...im sure you beat the stock market many times over....

 

ive seen similar pictures of collections before...some larger, but none as focused as yours.......i just hope your enjoying life beyond your Thompson collection...

 

and i hope its 84! Thompsons, not just 42 :)


Edited by huggytree, 17 January 2018 - 02:30 PM.

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#45 Adg105200

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 02:22 PM

Photo of the year!!

+1

 

Wow!  And most people are happy and lucky to own one or two Thompsons!

 

Andrew


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#46 firearm

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 03:42 PM

Honestly I don't know how many I have.  I would have to stop and count them.  I live very frugally and very modestly.  Vacation?  What's that?  I work all the time and drive a truck.  As you get older, you will find that money is nice, but it not everything by a long shot.  I will assure you my intention on this board is not to try and impress anyone.  That is not my goal.  I have had this stuff for many years now, locked away in a vault where no one could see or touch it.  I got to thinking what a shame that was.  Lots of people out there that would like the knowledge of how things were made back in the day.  What is correct and what is not correct.  I was thinking that some of you guys might like to see some of the more rare Thompson items.  That is what my post are about.  Nothing else.  

 

That said. I will assure you that I have learned a ton just by posting on this forum.  I just thought I knew a lot.  After reading the responses by some of you guys, I am starting to feel like a dumb ass.  Totally blown away by some of you RKI's.  Probably not too many out here that really realize how lucky they are to have access to the knowledge available on this board.  Some pretty smart guys here and I am most appreciative to have access to that knowledge.  Just because you have a lot of something, doesn't mean you know a lot about it.  I am getting smarter by the day.


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#47 huggytree

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 04:03 PM

you have an impressive collection and im sure many including me have wide eyes looking at your racks of thompsons....i just thought id bring up the obvious...glad your here and thanks for sharing your picture

 

id recommend selling and travel the world.....your a very wealthy man...pass the best ones down to your kids!!!


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#48 Petroleum 1

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 04:20 PM

Firearm...you make a good point about your impressive collection being worth nothing with pen stroke. That would keep me awake at nite. Unlikely that will happen but who knows. How you found and bought all of them would make a good book. I know exactly how many Thompsons i have...exactly one M1A1 lol
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#49 DOGLEG

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 04:32 PM

Dad! 


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#50 buzz

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 04:44 PM

If I had several million dollars worth of NFA MGs, I might want to diversify that investment a little.

 

But under normal circumstances, with a typical collection, I'm not worried about it.

 

You see people going to the car dealer and driving away in $45,000 SUVs, you don't see them laying awake thinking about the $30,000+ in guaranteed depreciation.  Not possible depreciation, but guaranteed depreciation.

 

I'm not going to worry about something that might happen someday.

 

The more expensive these guns get, the less likely they are to be banned anyway.  Why spend the political capital to ban a handful of $30,000 guns owned by some rich guys?


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#51 R67

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 06:19 PM

Sell gradually over many years, or your collection alone will crash the market. 


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#52 firearm

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 06:40 PM

Maybe, but I think we dodged a bullet last election.  Might not be so fortunate next time.  Just saying.  In any case one of the RKI's asked about the internals of the 28's above.  Pointed out something that I didn't notice.  The buffer pilots on S-18656 & S-18741 do not have a hole drill into them.  The buffer pilots on S-18082 & S-18094 do have the holed drilled out.  All four are marked the same, with an "S" on the plate side of the fiber buffer.  Why would they be different?  Why would the earlier buffer pilots be drilled and the later buffer pilots not?  All of the nickel bolts are marked "S".  Actuators are also marked with an "S".  Jpegs attached.

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#53 bug

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 11:52 AM

I would venture that the earliest Savage BPs did not have the hole. The hole makes assembly/disassembly much easier by capturing the spring. The hole could have been drilled or the pilot swapped out for a later,  modified Savage unit. My earlier Commercial came to me with a holed pilot but I don't know how it came to be there. Perhaps a close, side by side inspection would reveal something.

 

Bob D

 

PS  Thanks for the overhead pic of the fire control parts. The "nickled" parts are exactly like mine and the others I've seen.


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#54 TD.

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 12:44 PM

firearm,

Thanks for sharing that bit of information on your four 18,000 serial numbered Savage Thompson guns. The reason the buffer pilot does not have a hole at the long end of the shaft is because the contract between Auto-Ordnance Corporation and Savage Arms in December 1939 called for Savage to make the Model of 1928 Thompson gun identical to the Colt's Model of 1928 Thompson gun. Of course, the Colt's Model of 1928 was a conversion from the original Model of 1921 configuration. This new buffer pilot for the 1928 operating system during the Colt's era did not have a hole in the long shaft of the buffer pilot. It did not take long for military users to experience how difficult it was to install the buffer pilot and recoil spring (without kinking the recoil spring). A hole in the end of the shaft, perfect for the insertion of a nail or paper clip, made the installation much easier. The British, recipients of the majority of the early Savage guns, figured this out pretty quick and had an Armourer modification in place to drill a hole in the long shaft of the buffer pilot. See pages 136 - 138 in my book, Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story. I believe the Canadian's also followed suit, another early user of the Thompson gun during World War II. 

 

These no-hole Savage Arms buffer pilots, especially with the "S" markings on the side of the round flange (instead of on the flat of the round flange) are difficult to find and usually only found in unmolested early Savage Thompson guns. S-18656 & S-18741 are perfect examples of commercially sold Savage guns that were never "improved" by the original owner. Thank you Cameron County Sheriff's Department! Interesting, the example in my book is S-180XX, very close in number to the Cameron County guns. The exact point where this modification took place in production is not known, but it happened somewhere in the original contract for 10,000 guns. My guess is before the 20,000 serial number range (just a guess, guys).    

 

If the Interarms imported guns, S-18082 & S-18094, have the "S" mark on the side of the flange of the buffer pilot like shown above on the Cameron County guns, I would think these are the original buffer pilots that someone has modified with the hole. If the "S" mark is on the flat part of the flange, I would think these are replacement buffer pilots. 

 

This imparts another little bit of trivia for the Board. As more original guns are uncovered and examined, I know more details will come to light. It was not that long ago many Board members thought the Colt's era and early Savage era knurling for the fire control levers was the same. 

 

All good stuff!!!

 


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#55 buzz

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 04:01 PM

Indeed, all good stuff

 

My 17,XXX commercial savage has the original savage no-hole buffer pilot

 

It generally takes me between 5 to 20 tries to get it installed

 

try it sometime, the spring will compress straight, but it really, really wants to squirt sideways and do a loop

 

that would make a good contest, see who can do it 5 times in a row on the single try

 

my glove size is 2XL, fingers like a clump of bananas.  I wonder if that's an advantage or disadvantage

 

I got another pilot with a hole, big improvement


Edited by buzz, 18 January 2018 - 04:03 PM.

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#56 firearm

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 05:06 PM

Indeed, all good stuff

 

My 17,XXX commercial savage has the original savage no-hole buffer pilot

 

It generally takes me between 5 to 20 tries to get it installed

 

try it sometime, the spring will compress straight, but it really, really wants to squirt sideways and do a loop

 

that would make a good contest, see who can do it 5 times in a row on the single try

 

my glove size is 2XL, fingers like a clump of bananas.  I wonder if that's an advantage or disadvantage

 

I got another pilot with a hole, big improvement

 

 

It took me forever to get that spring & buffer pilot back in place.  My wife was brow beating me a little as a few curse words were required in order to reinstall it.


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#57 Canuck

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 08:36 PM

I've received permission from the owner of the Thompson, here in Canada, that TD referred to in post #18 to put up some pictures. When I first became aware of this Thompson I thought that it would likely be one of the early British guns sent to Canada early in the war (and it may be) but I'm not sure that is the case. I have not seen the gun in person but have confirmed there is no alignment mark on the barrel. I would certainly like to see this gun and inspect it but sadly it is rather distant from me. 

 

As Tom says "all good stuff".

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#58 firearm

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 11:19 PM

Amazing.  Within 4 digits of my 28.  Is it possible to ask him if that buttstock is marked with the "upside down anchor" mark? 

 

I made some time to make a few calls on SN# S18082 and S18094 over the last day or two.  I chased Jeff Miller down and he said he bought them from Shooter's World in AZ, in 1996.  I called them yesterday and worked my way around until I found the Class 3 guy.  He said that the store had changed hands many times and that those old records were sent off to ATF long ago.  Bummer.  Time for a FOIA request.  


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#59 Merry Ploughboy

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 10:08 AM

Indeed, all good stuff

 

My 17,XXX commercial savage has the original savage no-hole buffer pilot

 

It generally takes me between 5 to 20 tries to get it installed

 

try it sometime, the spring will compress straight, but it really, really wants to squirt sideways and do a loop

 

that would make a good contest, see who can do it 5 times in a row on the single try

 

my glove size is 2XL, fingers like a clump of bananas.  I wonder if that's an advantage or disadvantage

 

I got another pilot with a hole, big improvement

 

 

It took me forever to get that spring & buffer pilot back in place.  My wife was brow beating me a little as a few curse words were required in order to reinstall it.

 

What I did when I had a Colt Navy Thompson that came with a pilot rod sans hole was to buy a small 'vicegrips' tool (less than $5) and grind down the outside of the jaws so that when they were clamped around the pilot rod they would fit inside the receiver channel.  I put tape on the inside of the jaws so the rod wouldn't get scraped.  Then put the outside end of the rod on a firm object, push the spring down the rod till there's space to clamp on the jaws plus about 3/8" to point into the bolt (as is done with the pilot rods that have the retainer hole), and clamp on the vicegrips.  Make sure to position the vicegrip handles so that they point out during installation.  One could also put tape on the outer edges of the vicegrip jaws if concerned about inadvertently scraping the receiver finish.  Wear eye protection as the spring will be compressed very tightly.


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#60 buzz

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 12:08 PM

Good idea with the vice grips.

 

I guess you could dremel a smooth semi-circle on the jaws to grab the rod without galling it

 

I have to assume there is some knack to doing it quickly without vice grips, because it seems doubtful to me that the factory would sell a product that takes their assembly line employees 20 tries to assemble.

 

They would have come up with the hole idea if the employees were struggling with the thing.

 

Also, one time I assembled it without any tools in less than one second, I just jammed the assembly in the gun and it went together easy as pie.

 

I must have done the little hint or trick without realizing it.


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