Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Factory Marked "SAVAGE MODEL 1921" vs Mystery SAVAGE "1


  • Please log in to reply
5 replies to this topic

#1 Arthur Fliegenheimer

Arthur Fliegenheimer

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3541 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 January 2018 - 07:21 PM

Tracie Hill included Savage #S-15082  in his 1996 book "Thompson: The American Legend" as a possible example of  a "Savage 1921 Overstamp in reverse Commercial MODEL."    But he was circumspect about whether #S-15082 was actually a real factory created example or whether some unknown entity stamped the "1" over the "8" in "1928."   

 

In his 2009  "TUTB",  Hill  seemed to no longer question the authenticity of this Savage  "overstamp" in reverse being a Savage factory alteration and included the  non serial number side photo of S-15082 which was a feature in a 1992 TCA  edition and appeared (with the serial number side facing away from view) in the TSMG collection of  the William B. Ruger Gallery at the National Firearms Museum.

 

Yet Frank Iannamico  has a cutaway  Savage MODEL 1921 (S-17038) showing the Colt 1921 receiver internals. The receiver appears to have been Savage/AOC factory marked 1921 not marked 1928 with the  "8" overstamped with a "1."    It also seems that S-17038 remains the only documented example of  a Savage MODEL 1921.

 

Threads regarding the mysterious SAVAGE MODEL 1928 over stamped 1.

 

2007
http://www.machinegu...n 1921 150282
2013
http://www.machinegu...282#entry123819

 

Attached File  001.JPG   86.94K   43 downloads

Attached File  002.JPG   69.94K   39 downloads


  • 0

#2 Frank Iannamico

Frank Iannamico

    Website Founder & Industry Expert

  • Moderator
  • 1062 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 January 2018 - 12:42 PM

That Thompson s/n S-17039 is in the vault at the Navy Yard Museum. According to the curator at the time (he is no longer there) it was an FBI cut-away training weapon. I was working on another project and really wasn't paying much attention to Thompsons at the time, thus I didn't take a very close look at that Thompson. 

 

Several attempts to revisit the vault in the past few years have been futile.  


  • 0

#3 Arthur Fliegenheimer

Arthur Fliegenheimer

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3541 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 January 2018 - 12:05 PM

That Thompson s/n S-17039 is in the vault at the Navy Yard Museum. According to the curator at the time (he is no longer there) it was an FBI cut-away training weapon. 

 Frank,

Thanks for explaining that S-17039 is not available for view to visitors of the museum.  Amazing that  S-17039 survived the F.B.I. purge of their TSMGs. That they used a TSMG with 1921  features as a training tool when all their Colt & Savage/AO TSMGs were 1928 models  is in keeping with the oddity of S-17039.   Considering the thousands of 1921 actuators/buffers/pilots/springs that were removed from the Colt MODEL 1921 for conversion to the 1928 overstamp/Navy  MODEL, you would expect to see more than two examples of the Savage 1921 or Savage 1928 overstamp "I"   with or without  the Colt 1921 parts in them.  It was never confirmed that S-15082 has the Colt 1921 parts as shown in the cutaway model S-17039. 

 

Do you know if  these WWII Savage models were primarily ordered by foreign entities and not U.S. law enforcement as these examples do not show up in the U.S. market of transferable TSMGs.  Have you seen any Savage/AOC  correspondence, sales literature, or advertising that introduces the availability of this version for sale to U.S. or foreign buyers? 


  • 0

#4 TD.

TD.

    Respected Member

  • Board Benefactor
  • 3107 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 January 2018 - 07:50 PM

Threads from 2007. I have been doing this way too long! 

 

I too found the picture of the cut-a-way S-17039 very interesting with what appears to be Model of 1921 markings on an early Savage Arms Thompson gun. While a careful in-person inspection is certainly warranted, I believe the number "1" in the year 1921 has been added. It appears where the receiver was cut, the metal was rounded off (removing the original number "8"), probably for cosmetic purposes. It also appears the number "2" was nearly ground off and re-stamped or deepened too. Others may have a different opinion.

 

There is no doubt Auto-Ordnance Corporation in 1940 was selling commercially the Thompson guns manufactured by Savage Arms. I believe more so than has been reported by past authors. However, I have never seen a documented Model of 1921 from Savage Arms. The first British order of 750 Thompson guns were for the Model of 1921AC. AOC "promptly informed the British that it had discontinued the production of the Model 1921AC." (Page 3, Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story). In addition, the very rare 1940 Auto-Ordnance Catalog only lists the Model of 1928 Thompson gun. Certainly, a good supply of Colt's Model of 1921 actuators and buffer pilots would have been available. Perhaps a few original and documented Model of 1921 Savage Arms Thompson guns will surface someday. 

 

All good stuff!!!


  • 0

#5 Frank Iannamico

Frank Iannamico

    Website Founder & Industry Expert

  • Moderator
  • 1062 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 January 2018 - 10:59 AM

That Thompson s/n S-17039 is in the vault at the Navy Yard Museum. According to the curator at the time (he is no longer there) it was an FBI cut-away training weapon. 

 Frank,

 

 

Do you know if  these WWII Savage models were primarily ordered by foreign entities and not U.S. law enforcement as these examples do not show up in the U.S. market of transferable TSMGs.  Have you seen any Savage/AOC  correspondence, sales literature, or advertising that introduces the availability of this version for sale to U.S. or foreign buyers? 

 

I have no other info on that Thompson. There were several Thompsons in that vault, but I was working on a book project for the S&W 76 Swedish K and was not focused on Thompsons. There were several cut-away Thompsons that I just happened to photograph. I believe they are pictured in American Thunder III. 

 


  • 0

#6 Arthur Fliegenheimer

Arthur Fliegenheimer

    Respected Member

  • Regular Group
  • 3541 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 January 2018 - 01:14 PM

 There were several Thompsons in that vault, but I was working on a book project for the S&W 76 Swedish K and was not focused on Thompsons.. 

 

Do you still plan to publish this book and did you speak with Dwayne Charron during your research of the S&W? 


  • 0