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Soviet PPSH Manufacturers Markings Chart


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  • 6 years later...

Ive seen a Ppsh with a little horse head symbol on the receiver. Has anyone seen that before and/or can shed some light on its origin? Thank you!

 

I looked on a Russian language forum I frequent and could not find any thing that matched your description, do you have a photo?

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No thats it. Just an interesting stamp that Ive googled but come up empty.

 

Thanks. I did send it to a friend of mine in St. Petersburg who is a collector and writer, he was not familiar with the marking. He was asking for additional photos in an attempt to narrow the search down.

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Any chance that this is an importer's mark? I have a very similar marking on the barrel of a Siamese Mauser which was re-barreled in .45-70. I believe it was done by Navy Arms.

 

Here's the barrel marking. Similar but not the same

 

mark.jpg

Edited by StrangeRanger
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Good point, and maybe thats what it is. Thank you Roscoe and SR for checking into it.

 

 

 

Any chance that this is an importer's mark? I have a very similar marking on the barrel of a Siamese Mauser which was re-barreled in .45-70. I believe it was done by Navy Arms.

 

Here's the barrel marking. Similar but not the same

 

mark.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
A friend had one years ago but not sure if his was marked like that or not. I do have an original magazine adapter but that is all I ever found. Always wondered how the barrels looked and how they were marked? Thanks for the above info
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The D in the above document was used to mark PPSHs reissued in their original caliber with the designation of MP717 ( r ). MP41( r ) was the designation for one converted to 9mm. How those were marked I have yet to find out but I am working on it.

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  • 8 months later...
  • 1 month later...
On 1/30/2022 at 3:01 PM, Roland the Thompsongunner said:

A friend had one years ago but not sure if his was marked like that or not. I do have an original magazine adapter but that is all I ever found. Always wondered how the barrels looked and how they were marked? Thanks for the above info

Any chance I could impose on you for as many pictures of the original as possible.....and perhaps even the loan so I can make accurate measurements. I intend to reproduce these and would like to make them as accurately  as possible. All I have been able to inspect have been reproductions. if not tied to a gun and if you are interested....I'd love to discuss a purchase?

 

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  • 3 months later...
On 11/8/2015 at 12:46 AM, RoscoeTurner said:

Thought this may be of interest to some of you. First is a chart of various country markings found on the PPSH. The second shows Soviet manufacturer markings.

 

 

PPSH markings.jpg

Receiver markings.JPG

Hey! I just wanted to say again that this is probably one of the most useful posts ever. I now know where my PPSH was made! Thanks!

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  • 3 months later...
On 1/27/2022 at 7:14 PM, RoscoeTurner said:

This German document showing how the MP717( r ) receiver would be marked is interesting.  I have seen one PPSh so marked in all my years of collecting unfortunately it was not for sale.
 

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I don't really like the markings on this photo. The original "D" mark (MP41r) had a different font and from what I saw (20 MP41r) they all had the original Soviet S/N defaced by a cross-out and the new S/N stamped in much larger numbers always in front of the ejecting port

 

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Edited by HeinrichM
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12 hours ago, HeinrichM said:

Additionally, all original MP 41(r)s have an enlarged front port for the bolt safety, due to the extended rear of the modified MP 40 barrel that is originally fitted to all MP 41(r). This is not in your photo...

It would not have that change, the MP717(r) are those PPSH that were not modified for 9mm or an MP40 barrel.  Per the chart I provided the D does not indicate MP41(r), it indicates MP717(r).  You appear to be confusing the two different models.

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"D" were marked with 100% certainty models converted to 9x19. Whether they were actually called MP 717r or MP 41r or MP 717r converted to 9x19 is, I admit, somewhat confusing and there is a lot of confusion around it. Anyway, I was directly involved in the discovery of a pit full of buried weapons and among others there were 20 pieces of PPsh loaded with "D" and all without exception were the 9x19 version and all had an absolutely identical conversion method even though they contained all production versions of PPsh and years from 41 to 44. On the side thread, I posted some photos of both one of those found relics, as well as a "D" 9x19 model in good condition, which fought in the war and did not undergo any overhaul. I think it is a very solid and unique reference sample from which something can be determined. I am very interested in this topic and would like to finally shed a little more light on this issue. There is generally not much material to study "D" 9x19 conversions anywhere

 

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On 1/30/2022 at 9:01 PM, Roland the Thompsongunner said:

A friend had one years ago but not sure if his was marked like that or not. I do have an original magazine adapter but that is all I ever found. Always wondered how the barrels looked and how they were marked? Thanks for the above info

Here you have a photo of the original, mainly with the upper. It is clear from this that the Germans used the original barrel from the MP 40 for the conversion (perhaps from excess spare stock?). The barrel was obviously and quite crudely modified on a lathe so that it would fit into the PPsh receiver. As the barrel of the MP 40 is shorter, another bulkhead is welded to the front of the receiver to hold the barrel in front, and the end hole of the receiver is also modified to a much larger diameter. On the barrel is only the original MP 40 brand that was not erased by the lathe - here the code "27" which is the early ERMA code. There are no other or special markings on the barrel, not even an S/N

Since this modified barrel has a much longer rear support part than the original PPsh barrel, the bolt sits this distance further back and therefore the front port for the bolt safety is also enlarged - otherwise it would not be possible to secure the bolt in the forward position....Personally, I think, that the Germans left the rear part barrel this long mainly for reasons of reliability, so that the chamber would be as close as possible to the feed lips of the magazine

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