Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted September 10, 2018 Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 There must be a premium of a 1927 vs. a 1921 Colt. After all, there are fewer than 100 or so made, probably less than 30-40 unmodified (still with Colt semi internals). Take your estimate for a Colt in the condition you describe, and I would add 20% (maybe more) on to that. I have seen them sell for $45K immediately a year ago. Bmarvin is right on... Closer to 150. They were not made; they were converted. You could say that the original Colt internal parts in many examples of 1921/1928 MODELS for sale were missing and replaced with WWII parts. Colt 1921A #1852 looks like it is in 85% (?) finish (with pitted barrel per Frank's remembrances) and it just sold for over $60K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hntrdarren Posted September 10, 2018 Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 I agree with bmarvin and giantpanda4, 50,000. To 60,000 for an 85 % Colt 27AC with all original semi parts would be the market price. Better condition than 85% and it only goes up from there. A Colt 27A all original with original semi parts would be considerably more if you could ever find one of the few in existence and tranferable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawk64 Posted September 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2018 I looked for yrs. Finally found one. Not for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hntrdarren Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) Congrats on your rare 27 AC mohawk64. Edited September 11, 2018 by hntrdarren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawk64 Posted September 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 27AC actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTRS-14.5 Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 I'd say the Bofers and the UD 42 were good pricing points...My 2 cents... PTRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merry Ploughboy Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) Somewhere in the GH Colt TSMG Serial Nos. book set is a list of 100-110 known '27s. Interestingly, the facing page has a photo of a '27 receiver left side and the serial no. of the illustrated '27 isn't included in the list. Based on the 100-110 known, I tend to agree with Arthur F. that probably about 150 '21s were converted to '27s. Also, several months ago a '27 that was part of the St. Louis PD batch sale was listed on the Sturmgewehr.com NFA For Sale board at, IIRC, $47.5K. The gun was said to be all original including the semi internal parts, but the condition looked to be shooter grade or close to it (I hope I'm not offending whoever bought it - just opining on what I could tell from the pics). MHO, YMMV, etc.MP ETA: Link to Sturmgewehr.com '27 FS advertisementhttp://www.sturmgewehr.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8634-wts-colt-thompson-model-1927-all-original/#comment-24533 Edited September 11, 2018 by Merry Ploughboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawk64 Posted September 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 So??? Would a shooter grade 27 be valued any more or same as a shooter 21 ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD. Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 The six Model of 1927s obtained from the St. Louis Police Department and later sold by Midwest Distributors were some of the best deals on the market for a rare Thompson gun variation. All six guns showed normal police wear, one much more than the other five. It was obvious these guns were used by the STL PD for many years before being retired to storage. All six guns were complete with the original semi-automatic parts. No one had messed with these guns. Shooter grade? I can understand the comment based on pictures. However, seeing the guns in-person added a little more to the equation. Seeing all six in-person and being first to choose was an experience not experienced since the Cox or Earl era.. Except for the one with obviously more finish wear than the other five, each Model of 1927 was a great example in its own right. I am sure all the buyers are very happy. There was also a Model of 1927 A confiscated gangster gun complete with all original internal semi-automatic parts. If I remember correctly, it was missing the butt stock and had a bulged barrel but other than the serial number obliteration and missing buttstock, it was complete in every way. If only that "A" configuration would have been one of the six duty Model 1927s above.... There is little doubt all these Model of 1927s, as well as all the other STL PD Thompson guns, will appreciate over the years. It was a great time to be a buyer in the Thompson community! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawk64 Posted September 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 I would like to have seen them all together. Tom do you have any pics you can post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83Baron Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 I was able to acquire 2 of the 21 stl pd guns. Havent had a chance to post pics yet, but while they have a little wear they are at least all original and unmessed with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawk64 Posted September 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 100 yr old guns have been used. Some more than others. The 1921 Thompson at that time would be like having a ray gun today. I'm sure the sight of one cooled a few tempers. Back in the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawk64 Posted September 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 I was able to acquire 2 of the 21 stl pd guns. Havent had a chance to post pics yet, but while they have a little wear they are at least all original and unmessed with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawk64 Posted September 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 I'd like to see them. Please post when you can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmarvin Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 Back when I was collecting Colts, I tracked '27's fairly close. I was only able to come up with 38 serial numbers. 5 were 27A the rest were AC's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 Back when I was collecting Colts, I tracked '27's fairly close. I was only able to come up with 38 serial numbers. 5 were 27A the rest were AC's Camden P.D. had six Colt MODEL 1927A TSMGs. Considering GH came up with over 100 MODEL 1927 serial numbers and additional numbers have since been accounted for since his passing, there are undoubtedly many more Colt 1921A/AC that were converted than previously theorized by collectors. http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22136&hl= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted September 11, 2018 Report Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) 3757 Edited September 18, 2018 by colt21a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnshooter Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 I'd say the Bofers and the UD 42 were good pricing points...My 2 cents... PTRS What did the Bofers sell for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83Baron Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 I'd say the Bofers and the UD 42 were good pricing points...My 2 cents... PTRS What did the Bofers sell for?I remember taking a quick peak at a lot of the stuff and believe the bofers went for around 20-24k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawk64 Posted September 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 There must be a premium of a 1927 vs. a 1921 Colt. After all, there are fewer than 100 or so made, probably less than 30-40 unmodified (still with Colt semi internals). Take your estimate for a Colt in the condition you describe, and I would add 20% (maybe more) on to that. I have seen them sell for $45K immediately a year ago. Bmarvin is right on... Closer to 150. They were not made; they were converted. You could say that the original Colt internal parts in many examples of 1921/1928 MODELS for sale were missing and replaced with WWII parts. Colt 1921A #1852 looks like it is in 85% (?) finish (with pitted barrel per Frank's remembrances) and it just sold for over $60K. . If 150 were made in 1927 , how many guns survived? I mean ,of the 15,000 total how many actually survived and are on the registry? Maybe 2,500? So likely only about half of the total number of 27's made survived. Maybe 75?. Roger cox was out and about back in the day, he said only 35 (?) Examples were known to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Fliegenheimer Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 . If 150 were made in 1927 , how many guns survived? I mean ,of the 15,000 total how many actually survived and are on the registry? Maybe 2,500? So likely only about half of the total number of 27's made survived. Maybe 75?. Roger cox was out and about back in the day, he said only 35 (?) Examples were known to exist. Roger Cox was the preeminent authority on Colt TSMGs...back in the 1980's. Since then, many thought to be accurate conclusions about the Colt TSMG have been confirmed, revised and flat out debunked. Are you looking for a value estimate for insurance purposes? BATFE registered Colt TSMGs, all types.Take total AOC post 1934 NFA Act registered examples:7,100subtract 4,250 exportedsubtract 950 ordered by U.S. Army=1,900Allowances for 1968 amnesty examples?9 more accounted for.1,909How many more of all types? http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20404&hl=%20colt%20%20thompsons%20%20registry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt21a Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) 3757 Edited September 18, 2018 by colt21a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merry Ploughboy Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 FWIW, I concede to Arthur that the estimated number of transferable Colt Thompsons I reported in the linked thread (2,800) was very likely overly high. I failed to recognize that machine guns that were registered at or after the 1934 Act (e.g., police confiscated guns that were registered with the Dept. of Treasury), and then were re-registered by the police departments in the 1968 Amnesty were potentially being double counted in the high number estimate. A 2013 "Gun Digest" article has an "only about 2,400" estimate. Also, from what I could glean from Hill's "Thompson: American Legend", Stembridge had sixteen Colt Thompsons at one time or another. One could check GH's Colt TSMG Serial Nos. books for what may be a more accurate count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawk64 Posted September 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 . If 150 were made in 1927 , how many guns survived? I mean ,of the 15,000 total how many actually survived and are on the registry? Maybe 2,500? So likely only about half of the total number of 27's made survived. Maybe 75?. Roger cox was out and about back in the day, he said only 35 (?) Examples were known to exist. Roger Cox was the preeminent authority on Colt TSMGs...back in the 1980's. Since then, many thought to be accurate conclusions about the Colt TSMG have been confirmed, revised and flat out debunked. Are you looking for a value estimate for insurance purposes? BATFE registered Colt TSMGs, all types.Take total AOC post 1934 NFA Act registered examples:7,100subtract 4,250 exportedsubtract 950 ordered by U.S. Army=1,900Allowances for 1968 amnesty examples?9 more accounted for.1,909How many more of all types? http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20404&hl=%20colt%20%20thompsons%20%20registry my Navy was registered in 34 and again in 68. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merry Ploughboy Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 . If 150 were made in 1927 , how many guns survived? I mean ,of the 15,000 total how many actually survived and are on the registry? Maybe 2,500? So likely only about half of the total number of 27's made survived. Maybe 75?. Roger cox was out and about back in the day, he said only 35 (?) Examples were known to exist. Roger Cox was the preeminent authority on Colt TSMGs...back in the 1980's. Since then, many thought to be accurate conclusions about the Colt TSMG have been confirmed, revised and flat out debunked. Are you looking for a value estimate for insurance purposes? BATFE registered Colt TSMGs, all types.Take total AOC post 1934 NFA Act registered examples:7,100subtract 4,250 exportedsubtract 950 ordered by U.S. Army=1,900Allowances for 1968 amnesty examples?9 more accounted for.1,909How many more of all types? http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20404&hl=%20colt%20%20thompsons%20%20registrymy Navy was registered in 34 and again in 68. You're reminding me, IIRC from an article I read a while back, Colt Thompson S/N 167 was apparently also similarly double registered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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