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What happens to my Dealer Samples when I die?


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#1 brucea4

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 12:30 AM

I leave my pre-86 dealer samples to my family in my will when I pass.  What happens?  Can they sell them?  Will BATF confiscate them without compensation to my family after my death?  


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#2 Gaffshot

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 10:27 AM

Every state is different.  I can only speak for KY as I'm a lawyer here.   In KY, if you have a specific bequest that is unlawful the bequest would become void.  The asset then becomes part of your residuary estate.  If your will give them to another SOT then they could probably transfer on a Form 5, tax free.  If not willed to an SOT then the bequest would be an illegal instruction and then void.  They would then become part of your residuary estate.  Your executor would then take possession of the items and then they would be sold and transferred to another SOT, or given to the SOT who your will instructed.  The executor fills out the application to transfer with the estate as the transferor.  Executor signs for you and attached copy of court order appointing them as the personal representative of the estate.  Once application to transfer is approved then possession is given to the new SOT. 

 

This assumes your FFL/SOT is in your personal name.  If it is a corp or LLC then it's a matter of who, if anyone, continues on the business.

 

It may be best to not will a sample to someone not allowed to have it.  That would just make it complicated.  If it's not specifically mentioned in the will then it's just part of the residuary estate as listed above.  

 

This is how it works for transferables.  I have no experience with estates with samples but I think it would be the same.


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#3 brucea4

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 11:27 PM

Thank you for your response sir.  Appears you are well versed.  I guess I will have to find someone in the state of Arizona to help me out with willing my NFA firearms to my family.  Can anyone help out in southern Arizona?


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#4 johnsonlmg41

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 07:50 AM

If your SOT is current they will transfer out to any SOT tax free after the executor does the paperwork.  ATF generally allows a  significant amount of time to dispose of estate assets.   If your SOT is not current they will transfer out on a tax paid form 4 to an SOT holder only, they cannot be transferred on a form 5 except to a gov. agency for the most part.  They cannot be transferred to your heirs  at all(unless perhaps they had an SOT), nor would they transfer to an executor, they just stay in the estate until disposed of. 

If a family member did have an SOT, I don't know if they would require it to be a tax paid transfer or not?  That is a good question, but  a rare scenario. I'm guessing it could be tax free form 5?  Of course the heir's SOT would have to be in his name, not a business.

 

If they are registered to a business, you just change ownership/ membership of that and no need to do anything else.  No transfers at all as long as the entity is maintained and current.

 

No one comes and grabs them unless they are a public hazard, and if so, they are still the property of the estate and titled to the owner (the one benefit of registration).  I have seen families that want nothing to do with them, have the local police come in and "hold" them to ensure public safety, while the family arranges for disposal of the assets.   The main thing is to have a plan that involves someone close with some knowledge, and not to panic.  HTH


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#5 brucea4

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 02:09 PM

Thank you for the information but I will need a well versed attorney that is knowledgeable of the NFA world in southern Arizona....


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#6 renovate7

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 03:48 PM

Why don't you sell them before you die? Why stick someone with an arduous task when it's not necessary.


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#7 mattnh

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Posted 04 August 2019 - 07:30 PM

Why don't you sell them before you die? Why stick someone with an arduous task when it's not necessary.

 

IMHO, if possible, that sounds like good advice...


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#8 brucea4

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 12:04 AM

Why don't you sell them before you die? Why stick someone with an arduous task when it's not necessary.

 

And when exactly will I know I'm to die?


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#9 ppgcowboy

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Posted 05 August 2019 - 08:41 AM

Last week, A friend of mine knew the moment he pulled the trigger. Wish he reached out.
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#10 Towman

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 06:39 PM

Transferring per-samples from your estate is not difficult. As stated in previous post, the executor takes possession, and assuming that the executor is not a licensee and you have surrendered  your license , the sample guns, both pre and post are transferred to a new dealer/sot on a form 4 with the $200. ATF is pretty helpful in these situation and you can always call the NFA branch for procedures and guidance on estate transfers. If you do call, make sure that you ask for a senior examiner because usually the initial person that you speak with has limited knowledge.

I have handled several estate transfers, and what I have found is that your wishes may not be honored by your heirs. And as a lawyer once told me, "you can not rule from the grave"

The best advice is from Gaffshot, Have a solid plan an don't panic.

I live in Tucson, have an FFL / SOT. if you want i can help you form a plan. Feel free to reach out to me.

JIm


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#11 brucea4

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 05:49 PM

Transferring per-samples from your estate is not difficult. As stated in previous post, the executor takes possession, and assuming that the executor is not a licensee and you have surrendered  your license , the sample guns, both pre and post are transferred to a new dealer/sot on a form 4 with the $200. ATF is pretty helpful in these situation and you can always call the NFA branch for procedures and guidance on estate transfers. If you do call, make sure that you ask for a senior examiner because usually the initial person that you speak with has limited knowledge.

I have handled several estate transfers, and what I have found is that your wishes may not be honored by your heirs. And as a lawyer once told me, "you can not rule from the grave"

The best advice is from Gaffshot, Have a solid plan an don't panic.

I live in Tucson, have an FFL / SOT. if you want i can help you form a plan. Feel free to reach out to me.

JIm

Ok Jim....when I get some time I will reach out.....


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#12 APEXgunparts

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 08:54 PM

Transferring per-samples from your estate is not difficult. As stated in previous post, the executor takes possession, and assuming that the executor is not a licensee and you have surrendered  your license , the sample guns, both pre and post are transferred to a new dealer/sot on a form 4 with the $200. ATF is pretty helpful in these situation and you can always call the NFA branch for procedures and guidance on estate transfers. If you do call, make sure that you ask for a senior examiner because usually the initial person that you speak with has limited knowledge.

I have handled several estate transfers, and what I have found is that your wishes may not be honored by your heirs. And as a lawyer once told me, "you can not rule from the grave"

The best advice is from Gaffshot, Have a solid plan an don't panic.

I live in Tucson, have an FFL / SOT. if you want i can help you form a plan. Feel free to reach out to me.

JIm

 

Hey!  I recently met a gent named Jim who is an SOT and lives in Tucson!
Would you be the same Jim?

Richard


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#13 DougStump

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 11:29 AM

Unfortunately, soon I may be helping with an estate. He has around 10 MG's and cans, his wife will retain all the items.

I know a pair of Form 5's and a pair of photos for each item.

Question: When she does the Form 5's and submits the entire package, will she need a pair of fingerprint cards for each item? Or will one set of cards be accepted?

Thanks!

(Cancer sucks!)
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#14 ron_brock

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 07:44 PM

Unfortunately, soon I may be helping with an estate. He has around 10 MG's and cans, his wife will retain all the items.

I know a pair of Form 5's and a pair of photos for each item.

Question: When she does the Form 5's and submits the entire package, will she need a pair of fingerprint cards for each item? Or will one set of cards be accepted?

Thanks!

(Cancer sucks!)


Doug, sorry to hear that....

I have heard of some people having luck with one pair of cards with multiple transfers but I believe also have heard of some kicking back as there was no guarantee the same examiner would get all forms. Seems like with that quantity Id do the two sets or prints and send a cover letter explaining the nature of the transfer and see what happens.

Ron
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#15 Towman

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 11:19 PM

Transferring per-samples from your estate is not difficult. As stated in previous post, the executor takes possession, and assuming that the executor is not a licensee and you have surrendered  your license , the sample guns, both pre and post are transferred to a new dealer/sot on a form 4 with the $200. ATF is pretty helpful in these situation and you can always call the NFA branch for procedures and guidance on estate transfers. If you do call, make sure that you ask for a senior examiner because usually the initial person that you speak with has limited knowledge.

I have handled several estate transfers, and what I have found is that your wishes may not be honored by your heirs. And as a lawyer once told me, "you can not rule from the grave"

The best advice is from Gaffshot, Have a solid plan an don't panic.

I live in Tucson, have an FFL / SOT. if you want i can help you form a plan. Feel free to reach out to me.

JIm

 

Hey!  I recently met a gent named Jim who is an SOT and lives in Tucson!
Would you be the same Jim?

Richard

Richard

Yes I'm the same Jim. Hope everything is going well with Jeff and yours purchase. When you guys come back to Tucson, let me know.

JIm


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#16 Towman

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 11:20 PM

Transferring per-samples from your estate is not difficult. As stated in previous post, the executor takes possession, and assuming that the executor is not a licensee and you have surrendered  your license , the sample guns, both pre and post are transferred to a new dealer/sot on a form 4 with the $200. ATF is pretty helpful in these situation and you can always call the NFA branch for procedures and guidance on estate transfers. If you do call, make sure that you ask for a senior examiner because usually the initial person that you speak with has limited knowledge.

I have handled several estate transfers, and what I have found is that your wishes may not be honored by your heirs. And as a lawyer once told me, "you can not rule from the grave"

The best advice is from Gaffshot, Have a solid plan an don't panic.

I live in Tucson, have an FFL / SOT. if you want i can help you form a plan. Feel free to reach out to me.

JIm

Ok Jim....when I get some time I will reach out.....

No problem.

JIm


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#17 APEXgunparts

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 05:33 AM

 

Transferring per-samples from your estate is not difficult. As stated in previous post, the executor takes possession, and assuming that the executor is not a licensee and you have surrendered  your license , the sample guns, both pre and post are transferred to a new dealer/sot on a form 4 with the $200. ATF is pretty helpful in these situation and you can always call the NFA branch for procedures and guidance on estate transfers. If you do call, make sure that you ask for a senior examiner because usually the initial person that you speak with has limited knowledge.

I have handled several estate transfers, and what I have found is that your wishes may not be honored by your heirs. And as a lawyer once told me, "you can not rule from the grave"

The best advice is from Gaffshot, Have a solid plan an don't panic.

I live in Tucson, have an FFL / SOT. if you want i can help you form a plan. Feel free to reach out to me.

JIm

 

Hey!  I recently met a gent named Jim who is an SOT and lives in Tucson!
Would you be the same Jim?

Richard

Richard

Yes I'm the same Jim. Hope everything is going well with Jeff and yours purchase. When you guys come back to Tucson, let me know.

JIm

Jim,

Small world!
I was in Tucson with a small crew over the weekend of August 24th.
Loaded one last 53ft trailer.
I don't think we will be back in AZ til the SAR show in December.
I hope to see you there.

Richard


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#18 jim c 351

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 06:29 AM

Bruce,

Hopefully, when that day comes, both you and your parts will go to heaven.

Jim C


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#19 brucea4

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 11:33 AM

Bruce,

Hopefully, when that day comes, both you and your parts will go to heaven.

Jim C

 

What exactly do you mean?


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