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M16A2 market price


rck12
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  • 1 month later...

 

 

What is the market price for an M16A2 model 723 in excellent condition?

And I quote:

 

http://machinegunpriceguide.com/assets/images/db_images/db_M16A21.gif

 

 

This is a SUPER UNRELIABLE SOURCE!!! Imho

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This is probably more information than anybody wants, but FWIW:

 

First - no question - 40K is the current floor for a Colt M16A2 in good condition. Higher with the original box and accessory pack.

The charts you see above only go back so far and don't tell enough of the story - an M16 A1 new in the box in 1991 was $1000 retail. An A2 in 1993 was $2-3000 retail.

The primary reason to buy an M16 today is as an investment - a component of a diversified portfolio. Every time they say machineguns can't possibly get any pricier, they always do.

 

Colt pieces in particular have seen a significant uptick in recent years. With the relatively recent passing of John Keosayian, the market finally knows exactly how many Colt A2s are in the registry.

John acquired ALL of Colts transferable inventory at some point around the 1986 NFA registry debacle in exchange for financing the company (Colt) which was then on the verge of bankruptcy. He slowly trickled items out via a few dealer friends over 30+ years and at gradually increasing prices. To keep things interesting, he occasionally released things that no one had ever seen before along the way - 9mm RO635s with DEA contract suppressed uppers for their CLET service, SOCOM models with 14.5" HBAR uppers and KAC suppressors that are serial number matched to the guns, guns with A4 (post 1986) lowers that left Colt under a "repair" variance (A2 lowers came in for repair, left as an A4), etc.

 

With John's passing, the bulk of his estate came up for sale (Keystone Arms, I think), and the market became aware of two things:

1. John's had held onto some extremely rare Colt variants which weren't on anyone's radar - these hit the market starting at $65K each (ACR Prototypes, port firing weapons, the last of the very rare RO635 9mm smgs, AR15 s/n 1, etc)

2. That the last of the A2's were officially on the market and there were no more to magically appear as they had over the previous decades.

 

In my opinion, John is almost an unsung hero of the NFA community. A gun-guy with money at the right time and at the right place to keep an iconic American firearms manufacturing company afloat while at the same time having the wherewithal to separate out the transferable inventory and preserve it for private collectors rather than trying to monetize it up front and shipping it out with the post 86 guns to govt and police contracts, never to see the light of day. The M16A2 came out in 1983 and wasn't adopted by the Army until 1986. Most of the A2 Colts in private collector's hands are a direct consequence of this unlikely series of events that added precious few items to the NFA registry right at the time the current restrictions were going into place.

Edited by clancelotta
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  • 4 weeks later...

John Keosayian was also the guy who had the US Property marked M16A2s. I have documented the serial numbers of the US marked ones over the years and so far I have the count at 41.

A lot of dealers in eastern PA, where John K lived, got a lot of COLT guns and parts from him. 

A few posts here have suggested 25k for an M16A2 ....that's what AR-15 conversions are going for. Factory M16A1s are 30-35k. I agree with 40k start for an A2 

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think the $30,000 M16A2 is a thing of the past.  You can still get a conversion AR15 for that, but I think Colt will always be higher from now on.  You can watch Rubens website and see them come and go to get a good selling value on them. I would not sell mine for less than $50,000 and if it sits around, I call that inventory. $30,000 is a lot to some people and others make $50,000 in an hour. On a good day of course :)    

Historically, these have been good investments. Nobody knows the future but Mike from the pickers said, buy what you like in case you get stuck with it.  Nice to have an investment you can take out and use.

I have my price but it's not $30,000.

Eric

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That's what the guys who bought in the Stern auction in 2008 told themselves.  After a decade some of those guys were still underwater.  Economic times dictate values of everything.  As you watch the guy down the street that bid his house price up 60K over asking with the rented Mercedes and Lexus in the driveway, you may ask how long will that last?  And when all his stuff is foreclosed on and fire-sale'd, how will that affect your stuff?

You can see some prices here.  I can save you $10,000 (almost 33% off) over 2008 pricing on lot 21 on a much nicer gun (that actually works) I have listed on Sturm!! 

https://www.jamesdjulia.com/auction/spring-firearms-auction-2008/?session=1

Edited by johnsonlmg41
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You can take this for what it worth. I sold a factory Colt Commando for $45K a few months ago. Sold two others several years ago for $39K. Keep on in mind that those were Colt factory Commandos not a Colt factory Carbine, which it what you have if it is truly a model 723. Legit and correct Colt factory Commandos and Carbines are a tough find. As a side note, "full auto" marked weapons always bring more bucks than "burst" marked weapons. Correctness, original boxes and condition also will also drive the price. I can't remember how many were released before 86, but not many. Maybe one of the RKI's on this site will remember. Hope this helps you.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/5/2022 at 10:50 PM, clancelotta said:

This is probably more information than anybody wants, but FWIW:

 

First - no question - 40K is the current floor for a Colt M16A2 in good condition. Higher with the original box and accessory pack.

The charts you see above only go back so far and don't tell enough of the story - an M16 A1 new in the box in 1991 was $1000 retail. An A2 in 1993 was $2-3000 retail.

The primary reason to buy an M16 today is as an investment - a component of a diversified portfolio. Every time they say machineguns can't possibly get any pricier, they always do.

 

Colt pieces in particular have seen a significant uptick in recent years. With the relatively recent passing of John Keosayian, the market finally knows exactly how many Colt A2s are in the registry.

John acquired ALL of Colts transferable inventory at some point around the 1986 NFA registry debacle in exchange for financing the company (Colt) which was then on the verge of bankruptcy. He slowly trickled items out via a few dealer friends over 30+ years and at gradually increasing prices. To keep things interesting, he occasionally released things that no one had ever seen before along the way - 9mm RO635s with DEA contract suppressed uppers for their CLET service, SOCOM models with 14.5" HBAR uppers and KAC suppressors that are serial number matched to the guns, guns with A4 (post 1986) lowers that left Colt under a "repair" variance (A2 lowers came in for repair, left as an A4), etc.

 

With John's passing, the bulk of his estate came up for sale (Keystone Arms, I think), and the market became aware of two things:

1. John's had held onto some extremely rare Colt variants which weren't on anyone's radar - these hit the market starting at $65K each (ACR Prototypes, port firing weapons, the last of the very rare RO635 9mm smgs, AR15 s/n 1, etc)

2. That the last of the A2's were officially on the market and there were no more to magically appear as they had over the previous decades.

 

In my opinion, John is almost an unsung hero of the NFA community. A gun-guy with money at the right time and at the right place to keep an iconic American firearms manufacturing company afloat while at the same time having the wherewithal to separate out the transferable inventory and preserve it for private collectors rather than trying to monetize it up front and shipping it out with the post 86 guns to govt and police contracts, never to see the light of day. The M16A2 came out in 1983 and wasn't adopted by the Army until 1986. Most of the A2 Colts in private collector's hands are a direct consequence of this unlikely series of events that added precious few items to the NFA registry right at the time the current restrictions were going into place.

100 % correct. I hesitated to dive into this as I was in the market for a M16A2 at the time of the thread release, however I have spoken with many knowledgeable individuals, dealers and collectors and can corroborate the note above. Base price as of today is correct at ~$40K. Add ~ $2.500 for each of the following:

- Property of US Govt

_ Colt MFG

- Auto option vs. burst

- Original box/papers

- New or as new

To this ~$12.5K, you can then consider provenance. If the gun is a Keosayian, and you can validate that, then sky is the limit as most of his stuff is unique.

So a good example, Colt, NOS, box & Colt papers, auto and market Property of US Govt is a ~$50K gun. Add Keosayian and now you have a real investment/collectible. 

What I suggest is that we do a collective sale of our wives to a Saudi Price in exchange to a princely sum of $$ to complete our collections!

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$50,000 sounds like a lot of money to some and not so much to others. Since the seller only has to find one buyer, it's not too hard to find somebody with money to buy it.

The price is only going up.

Eric

 

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On 10/30/2022 at 9:41 AM, Frank Iannamico said:

John Keosayian was also the guy who had the US Property marked M16A2s. I have documented the serial numbers of the US marked ones over the years and so far I have the count at 41.

A lot of dealers in eastern PA, where John K lived, got a lot of COLT guns and parts from him. 

A few posts here have suggested 25k for an M16A2 ....that's what AR-15 conversions are going for. Factory M16A1s are 30-35k. I agree with 40k start for an A2 

 

 

 

Add SN MCAF1 to Keosayian's stable of M16A2's. 

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The three round "burst" function was in fact a well thought out modification to the gun, as it was determined that after the first three rounds, most shooters would be off target. Thus the 3 round burst, or limiter (as we called it) conserved ammo and made for a much higher chance of hitting the target. 

As you state, almost all US rolled A2's are burst as that is what the government ordered. US rolled "auto" guns are one-off's, with Keosayian responsible for the vast majority of those. Relatively speaking, there are very few "auto" A2's, US Govt rolled, so the scarcity alone drives prices, not the fact that burst guns can be converted. Colt US Govt Property rolled guns, factory Auto (not conversions) are, for collectors, the ones to get. I can't verify this, but the note above that the SN count is around 41 or so speaks for itself. Keosayian was a avid collector with access and ability to get stuff that will never be repeated. I own one of his early 604/614 gun that is a production enigma. But as we have learned over the past few years, anything, and I mean anything could and did come into his hands. He just picked up the phone and ordered what he wanted! Wow. 

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